Cryptography-Digest Digest #406, Volume #14 Tue, 22 May 01 08:13:01 EDT
Contents:
Re: CIA Kryptos last 97 characters (Gary Warzin)
Re: Apology to Cloakware (open letter) (wtshaw)
Re: Comparing two encrypted numbers ("Martin Schweitzer")
Re: 64-bit key for DES (Paul Crowley)
Re: TC15 improvement bigtime (Vincent Quesnoit)
Re: survey (Pascal Junod)
Re: survey (Mok-Kong Shen)
Re: How do you measure the power of a chipher? ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Re: Apology to Cloakware (open letter) ("Jeffrey Walton")
Re: survey (Surendra Rana)
Re: How do you measure the power of a chipher? ("Tom St Denis")
Re: How do you measure the power of a chipher? ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Re: Avoiding RSA padding altogether? (Sam)
Help with RSA PKCS1 v1.5 encryption process in JAVA language source code (Sam)
Re: Help working through RSA example in Applied Cryptography 2nd edition (Sam)
Re: Apology to Cloakware (open letter) (SCOTT19U.ZIP_GUY)
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: Re: CIA Kryptos last 97 characters
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Gary Warzin)
Date: Tue, 22 May 2001 03:50:09 GMT
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, [EMAIL PROTECTED] says...
>While your observation (KR,..,YP) is interesting, it is not necessarily
>significant; or if it turns out to be significant, it could well be for
>some cause other than the one you've been pursuing. Some of the ideas
>on your Web page are plain wrong, for example the issue of line lengths:
>The actual sculpture has the letters stenciled out, and they have
>variable widths, so (depending on what ciphertext letters happen to
>occur) the lines will naturally be of different lengths, simply to
>neatly line up at the right margin (as opposed to what typesetters call
>"ragged right"). The main problem I have with your approach is the
>notion that a tableau is "shining through" the patent ciphertext; the
>recovered plaintext is not consistent with that model, so why should the
>last little bit follow that model? It is certainly not consistent with
>the normal uses of tableaus for encryption.
You make an interesting point about the line lengths on the actual sculpture
vs. those typed out with a fixed width font. It does make me rethink
something.
Humor me for a moment. Let's assume that there IS an underlying table. If the
real life physical line lengths stay the same, but the number of characters per
line differ, then my underlying table may not line up as I have proposed. The
KP and YP may very well line up nicely since they are near the edge of the
panel. However, the K and R errors may indeed fall at a slightly different
positon (based on character count from the left edge on the underlying table).
This could mean the the first charaters on the rows under the K and R errors
on it are not realy Y and T, but could be shifted by a few characters in either
direction. That could make them consistent with a completely standard Vigenere
table. That is the left column of letters is KRYPTOSABC... similar to the
table that we can see. There is even enough of a variation in character widths
to make this the second line in from the left, leaving room for the ABCD...
line we see in the real table.
On one hand this makes it very unlikely that the underlying table is actually
required to do the decyption (since we already have it on the other panel). On
the other hand the more perfect the underlying table appears, the more likely
it is intentional.
This does simplify things. It could be that the only point of to this is that
the KR and YP are bogus. Of course the only way we will know for sure is if
someone using the 93 character set actually solves this last part of the
message. Or should I say "next" part. I'm sure that any solution to the text
only takes us one step deeper into the total puzzle.
===========================================
Gary Warzin [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Audiophile Systems, Ltd. www.aslgroup.com
Phone: 317-849-7103 Fax: 317-841-4107
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (wtshaw)
Subject: Re: Apology to Cloakware (open letter)
Date: Mon, 21 May 2001 23:03:13 -0600
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] (Joe A Hacker) wrote:
> Mok-Kong Shen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>
> > I think that human (i.e. non-algorithmic) has definitely
> > much more chance in successfully doing that job than any
> > algorithms. On the other hand, there had been work done on
> > determining the authorship of Shakespeare's writings.
> >
>
> It's simply statistical analysis and afaik works very well.
>
> Regards,
>
> Erich
I confess to doing lots of statistical studies of writing as part of
graduate work around 1970. In one study I used 25 people that completed
10 assigned papers as a part of a course I taught. Besides meeting a
formal obligation, other results were most interesting in light of my
unofficial research goals. I learned lots.
--
Suppose California quit sending food back East.
Would Gerorge be ready to barter with energy?
------------------------------
From: "Martin Schweitzer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Comparing two encrypted numbers
Date: Tue, 22 May 2001 15:33:11 +1000
This is /exactly/ what I was looking for - thanks!
Martin
Lon Willett <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> "Martin Schweitzer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
>
> > Is anyone aware of a technique that allows two encrypted numbers to be
> > compared without decryping them? I am told that there was a paper
presented
> > at RSA 2000 which mentions this, but I cannot find any reference to that
> > paper.
>
> The paper is "A Cost-Effective Pay-Per-Multiplication Comparison
> Method for Millionaires" by Marc Fischlin. Try the links:
>
> http://www.mi.informatik.uni-frankfurt.de/research/papers.html
> http://www.mi.informatik.uni-frankfurt.de/people/marc/marc.html
>
> /Lon Willett
------------------------------
Subject: Re: 64-bit key for DES
From: Paul Crowley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Tue, 22 May 2001 05:34:29 GMT
[EMAIL PROTECTED] (ritesh) writes:
> I am a Amateur Cryptographer working on the development of a 64-bit key
> for a DES
Why?
What you want to do is a bad idea, but until I know why you want to do
it I can't advise you on what would be a better idea.
To approach the question from another angle, why don't you just use
the AES, Rijndael?
--
__ Paul Crowley
\/ o\ [EMAIL PROTECTED]
/\__/ http://www.cluefactory.org.uk/paul/
"Conservation of angular momentum makes the world go around" - John Clark
------------------------------
From: Vincent Quesnoit <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: TC15 improvement bigtime
Date: Tue, 22 May 2001 07:38:26 +0200
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Tom St Denis a �crit :
> "Vincent Quesnoit" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > What I meant was that in the case of a multiplication by three, the adder
> can be
> > simplified compared to what a standard adder does when the same bits are
> not
> > repeated, ie in B xor C+CD, the repetition of C suggest that some
> > simplifications can be done in the overall boolean expresion that computes
> a
> > bit, and even more so when you move towards more significant bits. This
> may lead
> > to expressions that do not need to wait for the carry to propagate over 29
> bits.
> >
> > In the multiplion by 9, you would get an expression like F xor I +GJ which
> does
> > not show the same kind of simplification.
>
> Oh I think I see what you are saying....
>
> In my analysis though I consider a 32-bit add to be trivial and don't
> discuss the finer points of optimization (because quite frankly I don't know
> any)
>
> Tom
You are probably right, because I do not know whether hardware specialists would
bother going to that level of detail instead of using off the shelf adders.
Vincent
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 22 May 2001 08:17:58 +0200
From: Pascal Junod <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: survey
On Tue, 22 May 2001, Tom St Denis wrote:
> Is the reason I get zero feedback on my papers (other than when my ideas are
> obviously stupid) (and other than stuff by Scott Fluhrer) because?
>
> a) This "tom" guy is a crank and I don't want to read his stuff.
> b) This "tom" guy is a retard and what he writes makes my 12 yr olds laugh
> c) I read his stuff but I don't want to comment.
> d) I read his stuff but I can't think of anything to comment
> e) I read his stuff and do comment and tom just doesn't listen or forgot.
> f) I like surveys.
g) Most of us are quite busy and don't have enough time to read carefully
what you write.
A+
Pascal
--
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
* Pascal Junod, [EMAIL PROTECTED] *
* Security and Cryptography Laboratory (LASEC) *
* INF 240, EPFL, CH-1015 Lausanne, Switzerland ++41 (0)21 693 76 17 *
* Place de la Gare 12, CH-1020 Renens ++41 (0)79 617 28 57 *
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
------------------------------
From: Mok-Kong Shen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: survey
Date: Tue, 22 May 2001 09:02:50 +0200
Pascal Junod wrote:
>
> On Tue, 22 May 2001, Tom St Denis wrote:
>
> > Is the reason I get zero feedback on my papers (other than when my ideas are
> > obviously stupid) (and other than stuff by Scott Fluhrer) because?
> >
> > a) This "tom" guy is a crank and I don't want to read his stuff.
> > b) This "tom" guy is a retard and what he writes makes my 12 yr olds laugh
> > c) I read his stuff but I don't want to comment.
> > d) I read his stuff but I can't think of anything to comment
> > e) I read his stuff and do comment and tom just doesn't listen or forgot.
> > f) I like surveys.
>
> g) Most of us are quite busy and don't have enough time to read carefully
> what you write.
Because of (g), it seems to be a good strategy to present
the very 'essence' (highly condensed version) of your
stuffs in the group in the 'best' manner possible. Those
who get interested would then take the trouble to access
your web page and look into the details. From the view
point of psychology, it is not unlike marketing of
commodities, I suppose. If one can't attract the eyes of
the customers in the first place, through some tiny but
well prepared presentations that give them certain
particularly good feeling (true or illusive) of the
products as well as the management of the firm, one is
generally already lost in the market in my humble view.
M. K. Shen
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: How do you measure the power of a chipher?
Date: Tue, 22 May 2001 07:08:52 GMT
Tom St Denis wrote:
> "Adam" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > When you hear about RSA crypto it is said to be in 56 bits or 128 bits.
> > What do that mean? Is it the length of the public or private key or the
> > two big primenumbers you multiply, or?
>
> Um a 56-bit RSA key is not secure at all. In fact I think the 56 comes from
> the DES keysize.
128 bit RSA is alost as unsecure as 56 bit RSA ;->>
need at least 1024 bits...
== <EOF> ==
Disastry http://i.am/disastry/
http://disastry.dhs.org/pgp <----PGP plugins for Netscape and MDaemon
^--GPG for Win32 (supports loadable modules and IDEA)
^---PGP 2.6.3ia-multi03 (supports IDEA, CAST5, BLOWFISH, TWOFISH,
AES, 3DES ciphers and MD5, SHA1, RIPEMD160 hashes)
------------------------------
From: "Jeffrey Walton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Apology to Cloakware (open letter)
Date: Tue, 22 May 2001 04:28:29 -0400
Reply-To: "Jeffrey Walton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
| Suppose California quit sending food back East.
| Would Gerorge be ready to barter with energy?
I understand that when power companies were required to open
back up (from scheduled maintenance downtime), the rolling
black outs ceased. Is this correct?
BTW, what observations can you recall from you graduate
studies? I'd love to hear of the results :) Did you
publish?
Jeff
"wtshaw" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
| In article
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
| [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Joe A Hacker) wrote:
|
| > Mok-Kong Shen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
| >
| >
| > > I think that human (i.e. non-algorithmic) has
definitely
| > > much more chance in successfully doing that job than
any
| > > algorithms. On the other hand, there had been work
done on
| > > determining the authorship of Shakespeare's writings.
| > >
| >
| > It's simply statistical analysis and afaik works very
well.
| >
| > Regards,
| >
| > Erich
|
| I confess to doing lots of statistical studies of writing
as part of
| graduate work around 1970. In one study I used 25 people
that completed
| 10 assigned papers as a part of a course I taught.
Besides meeting a
| formal obligation, other results were most interesting in
light of my
| unofficial research goals. I learned lots.
| --
| Suppose California quit sending food back East.
| Would Gerorge be ready to barter with energy?
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 22 May 2001 20:03:45 +1000
From: Surendra Rana <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: survey
I haven't been on to this newsgroup until today, when I am looking for an urgent
help with my RSA PKCS1 (rfc 2313) encryption process.
But I have found your help, answers, ideas very informative and interesting.
keep it up, your good work for this group.
Sam
Tom St Denis wrote:
> I just want to know (curious mind at work here).
>
> Is the reason I get zero feedback on my papers (other than when my ideas are
> obviously stupid) (and other than stuff by Scott Fluhrer) because?
>
> a) This "tom" guy is a crank and I don't want to read his stuff.
> b) This "tom" guy is a retard and what he writes makes my 12 yr olds laugh
> c) I read his stuff but I don't want to comment.
> d) I read his stuff but I can't think of anything to comment
> e) I read his stuff and do comment and tom just doesn't listen or forgot.
> f) I like surveys.
>
> I just want to know if my ideas/research are reaching anyone, I want to make
> sure I am not just wasting my time....
>
> Tom
------------------------------
From: "Tom St Denis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: How do you measure the power of a chipher?
Date: Tue, 22 May 2001 10:29:25 GMT
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> Tom St Denis wrote:
> > "Adam" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> > news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > > When you hear about RSA crypto it is said to be in 56 bits or 128
bits.
> > > What do that mean? Is it the length of the public or private key or
the
> > > two big primenumbers you multiply, or?
> >
> > Um a 56-bit RSA key is not secure at all. In fact I think the 56 comes
from
> > the DES keysize.
>
> 128 bit RSA is alost as unsecure as 56 bit RSA ;->>
> need at least 1024 bits...
I didn't say 128-bit RSA was secure though...
Tom
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: How do you measure the power of a chipher?
Date: Tue, 22 May 2001 10:39:27 GMT
Tom St Denis wrote:
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > Tom St Denis wrote:
> > > "Adam" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> > > news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > > > When you hear about RSA crypto it is said to be in 56 bits or 128 bits.
> > > > What do that mean? Is it the length of the public or private key or the
> > > > two big primenumbers you multiply, or?
> > >
> > > Um a 56-bit RSA key is not secure at all. In fact I think the 56 comes from
> > > the DES keysize.
> >
> > 128 bit RSA is alost as unsecure as 56 bit RSA ;->>
> > need at least 1024 bits...
>
> I didn't say 128-bit RSA was secure though...
> Tom
I know...
but you said 56 is insecure and nothing about 128
so one who does not know anything about RSA may assume that 128 bit is secure :-/
== <EOF> ==
Disastry http://i.am/disastry/
http://disastry.dhs.org/pgp <----PGP plugins for Netscape and MDaemon
^--GPG for Win32 (supports loadable modules and IDEA)
^---PGP 2.6.3ia-multi03 (supports IDEA, CAST5, BLOWFISH, TWOFISH,
AES, 3DES ciphers and MD5, SHA1, RIPEMD160 hashes)
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 22 May 2001 20:55:53 +1000
From: Sam <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Avoiding RSA padding altogether?
RSA encryption in Java programming language
I have generated p,q,n and now wants to perform encryption/decryption
process using RSA PKCS1 v1.5. rfc 2313
n is in the range of 1024 to 2048 or may be more.
Can somebody help me with java source code for octet encryption block
string
EB = 00 || BT || PS || 00 || D
BT block type = 01 for private and 02 for public
PS padding string = (for BT=01) = FF
= (for BT=02) = pseudorandomly gemnerated
octet
* isn't octet usually represented in 4 digits say for char 'a' = 0141,
what does this FF then means
PS = k - 3 - ||D|| D is plain text in octets, k is octet length of
modulus.
EB = length k
*Is it must to go for octet type string or messege D can be just
converted to integer value and then exponetially computed.
octet string to int conversion
k
x = Sum 2^(8(k-i)) EBi
i=1
* will x be just one big integer or it shall be an array of elements
representing the octal value equivalent integer value as per ASCII table
.
RSA computation y = x^c mod n c= e fpr public, = d for private
so value of y should be just a very big integer or y will be again an
array of
* How it may effect in transmitting time/computing efficiency when
messege D is also very big say 60 octets and n, d, e are also very big.
Have somebody implemented RSA encryption/decryption in such manner using
JAVA programming language. I would like to see the actual algorithm and
source code.
Also if somebody have implented using Garner's algorithm in JAVA
language.
I would really appreciate any kind of help with source code.
Thanks in advance.
Sam
"D. J. Bernstein" wrote:
> Rabin introduced this system---a signature of m is a random r and a
> square root of H(r,m)---in his famous 1979 tech report on signatures.
> I often wonder if anybody else has actually read this report; Rabin
> doesn't get nearly enough credit for all the great ideas in there.
>
> See http://cr.yp.to/papers.html#sigs for a security analysis.
>
> ---Dan
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 22 May 2001 21:09:18 +1000
From: Sam <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Help with RSA PKCS1 v1.5 encryption process in JAVA language source code
As a part of my study :
RSA encryption in Java programming language
I have generated p,q,n and now wants to perform encryption/decryption
process using RSA PKCS1 v1.5. rfc 2313
n is in the range of 1024 to 2048 or may be more.
Can somebody help me with java source code for octet encryption block
string
EB = 00 || BT || PS || 00 || D
BT block type = 01 for private and 02 for public
PS padding string = (for BT=01) = FF
= (for BT=02) = pseudorandomly gemnerated
octet
* isn't octet usually represented in 4 digits say for char 'a' = 0141,
what does this FF then means
PS = k - 3 - ||D|| D is plain text in octets, k is octet length of
modulus.
EB = length k
*Is it must to go for octet type string or messege D can be just
converted to integer value and then exponetially computed.
octet string to int conversion
k
x = Sum 2^(8(k-i)) EBi
i=1
* will x be just one big integer or it shall be an array of elements
representing the octal value equivalent integer value as per ASCII table
.
RSA computation y = x^c mod n c= e fpr public, = d for private
so value of y should be just a very big integer or y will be again an
array of
* How it may effect in transmitting time/computing efficiency when
messege D is also very big say 60 octets and n, d, e are also very big.
Have somebody implemented RSA encryption/decryption in such manner using
JAVA programming language. I would like to see the actual algorithm and
source code.
Also if somebody have implented using Garner's algorithm in JAVA
language.
I would really appreciate any kind of help with source code.
Thanks in advance.
Sam
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 22 May 2001 21:11:31 +1000
From: Sam <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Help working through RSA example in Applied Cryptography 2nd edition
RSA encryption in Java programming language
I have generated p,q,n and now wants to perform encryption/decryption
process using RSA PKCS1 v1.5. rfc 2313
n is in the range of 1024 to 2048 or may be more.
Can somebody help me with java source code for octet encryption block
string
EB = 00 || BT || PS || 00 || D
BT block type = 01 for private and 02 for public
PS padding string = (for BT=01) = FF
= (for BT=02) = pseudorandomly gemnerated
octet
* isn't octet usually represented in 4 digits say for char 'a' = 0141,
what does this FF then means
PS = k - 3 - ||D|| D is plain text in octets, k is octet length of
modulus.
EB = length k
*Is it must to go for octet type string or messege D can be just
converted to integer value and then exponetially computed.
octet string to int conversion
k
x = Sum 2^(8(k-i)) EBi
i=1
* will x be just one big integer or it shall be an array of elements
representing the octal value equivalent integer value as per ASCII table
.
RSA computation y = x^c mod n c= e fpr public, = d for private
so value of y should be just a very big integer or y will be again an
array of
* How it may effect in transmitting time/computing efficiency when
messege D is also very big say 60 octets and n, d, e are also very big.
Have somebody implemented RSA encryption/decryption in such manner using
JAVA programming language. I would like to see the actual algorithm and
source code.
Also if somebody have implented using Garner's algorithm in JAVA
language.
I would really appreciate any kind of help with source code.
Thanks in advance.
Sam
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (SCOTT19U.ZIP_GUY)
Subject: Re: Apology to Cloakware (open letter)
Date: 22 May 2001 11:52:31 GMT
[EMAIL PROTECTED] (Jeffrey Walton) wrote in
<9ed7od$s74$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
>| Suppose California quit sending food back East.
>| Would Gerorge be ready to barter with energy?
>
>I understand that when power companies were required to open
>back up (from scheduled maintenance downtime), the rolling
>black outs ceased. Is this correct?
>
Actaully there are many small plants in Ca that use
to make power. LIke the one in TRONA california. But
my freinds there say since the small companies don't
get paid by the state they shut down.
Maybe if they paid enough bills to the small companies
there would not be a problem.
David A. Scott
--
SCOTT19U.ZIP NOW AVAILABLE WORLD WIDE "OLD VERSIOM"
http://www.jim.com/jamesd/Kong/scott19u.zip
My website http://members.nbci.com/ecil/index.htm
My crypto code http://radiusnet.net/crypto/archive/scott/
MY Compression Page http://members.nbci.com/ecil/compress.htm
**NOTE FOR EMAIL drop the roman "five" ***
Disclaimer:I am in no way responsible for any of the statements
made in the above text. For all I know I might be drugged or
something..
No I'm not paranoid. You all think I'm paranoid, don't you!
------------------------------
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