I just can't resist the opportunity to fork this discussion:
http://intertwingly.net/blog/2010/09/13/One-True-Way
- Sam Ruby
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e projects, the barriers to entry at the ASF are too high. I
can live with that.
For some projects, the barriers to entry at the ASF are too low. I
can live with that too.
I hope that projects that are a perfect match to the ASF find a good
home here. I hope that the projects
are fine.
+1
I've added a note to this affect to the "Describe the overall activity
in the project over the past quarter." bullet in
http://www.apache.org/foundation/board/reporting
> -Bertrand
- Sam Ruby
-
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
What would this mean for the Jakarta PMC as many of them are part of Ant?
Do these PMC'ers do double duty?
It is possible for a person to be on more than one PMC. It is also
possible to voluntarily resign from one PMC so that one can focus on
other things.
- Sam Ruby
include an archive
such as MARC, etc.
View 3: Close the list to all except members and committers.
View 1: +1 Sam, Steven Noles
View 2: +1 Andy
View 3: +1 Ken
For the record, I ameanable to both views one and two.
- Sam Ruby
Craig R. McClanahan wrote:
Interestingly, this vote also helps crystalize who we think the "Apache
community" really is.
+1
-Sam Ruby
lt up over long periods of time. My aim is to actively
seek them out and surface them for all of us to inspect, discuss, and
learn from.
Peter, take a moment and glance at
http://httpd.apache.org/dev/guidelines.html. Search for "Apache
Developers".
- Sam Ruby
Rodent of Unusual Size wrote:
Sam Ruby wrote:
There are going to be culture classes as we try to move towards becoming
one big happy family.
did you mean 'clashes'? just want to make sure, since it changes the
meaning a little.. :-)
Ouch! Yes. Ever notice how many of your typos en
would be hard to get a 3/4 majority with my -1.
The incubator will forward the code base to the appropriate home. Ken
has indicated that Jakarta could be the right home. But we will never
know until the process gets started.
- Sam Ruby
er, take a look at the last five words of the first
paragraph of http://www.apache.org/
Sam Ruby wrote:
> There are going to be culture [clashes] as we try to move towards
> becoming one big happy family. Most of it is due to ingrained
> assumptions that we have all built up over long p
It seems to me that this would satisfy concerns
about dividing community. Or is it enough?
i think this is the happiest medium.
IMHO, the contentious issue is whether or not publicly accessible
archives should be provided.
- Sam Ruby
oject discussions are frequent and
constructive.
Any current ASF member care to second this nomination?
- Sam Ruby
Craig R. McClanahan wrote:
I hereby nominate Ted Husted.
Ted has been a long term committer on Struts and Jakarta Commons, and his
code contributions have been valuable. But, in addition to that, Ted has
taken the lead at attempting to help us codify our policies and
procedures, and helping us
that individual here:
http://jakarta.apache.org/site/jon.html
- Sam Ruby
Hey - I've got an idea! Why don't *YOU* suggest this to Jon? I'll be
right behind you. *WAY* behind you. ;-)
- Sam Ruby
cared enough to participate. Like Jon.
Here's an exercise for you: find a similar document created by a non-ASF
member.
- Sam Ruby
.html -> idiot.html
As I said before, Jon is unique.
- Sam Ruby
done in the open (Jakarta, XML).
- Sam Ruby
http://jakarta.apache.org/site/pmc/01-01-17-meeting-minutes.html
and this vote occurred on the [email protected] mailing list:
http://marc.theaimsgroup.com/?l=jakarta-general&m=98028130104993&w=2
- Sam Ruby
P.S. Jon was also the one who nominated me as an ASF member.
keeping things balanced is a very difficult thing.
+1
- Sam Ruby
know/don't care
- Sam Ruby
Andrew C. Oliver wrote:
I'm looking for the text version of this:
http://jakarta.apache.org/site/agreement.html
which is supposedly in text form SOMEWHERE in CVS in some module...
http://cvs.apache.org/viewcvs.cgi/~checkout~/jakarta-site2/xdocs/site/agreement.xml
- Sam Ruby
Ted Husted wrote:
Lists are how we procreate.
Eee...
Perhaps there *are* some things that really should be done in private.
- Sam Ruby
Stefano Mazzocchi wrote:
First of all, I was very happy to see that 'openness' doesn't appear to
be a quality of any particular group of people. I perceive this somewhat
reducing the value of Sam's thesis that jakarta has an 'open' attitude
that the rest of the ASF doesn't have.
+1
- Sam Ruby
xisting Jakarta subproject to become a top level project.
Of course, people involved may voluntarily chose to change their status
to emeritus, but are under no obligation to do so.
Thoughts?
- Sam Ruby
Rodent of Unusual Size wrote:
Sam Ruby wrote:
I'm planning on submitting a proposal to change the bylaws
of Jakarta to bring Jakarta's PMC structure closer to the
HTTPD one.
btw, sam, where are the current bylaws? or do they go by another
name?
http://jakarta.apache.org/site/management.
tion would probably be better. I actually would recommend that
this glossary goes a bit further and defines vote and veto as both imply
specific obligations that may not be obvious to someone not familiar
with the ASF.
- Sam Ruby
Andrew C. Oliver wrote:
It would be nice if other people gave Rob a hand and maybe we expanded
this to a wider scope..
Just so people can see examples of what the finished product looks like
each month: http://jakarta.apache.org/site/news/
- Sam Ruby
r not, hence the clarification request).
- Sam Ruby
r since.
References:
http://marc.theaimsgroup.com/?l=ant-dev&m=97712718421034&w=2
http://marc.theaimsgroup.com/?t=97712745500023&r=1&w=2
http://jakarta.apache.org/site/pmc/01-01-17-meeting-minutes.html
- Sam Ruby
P.S. It is my understanding that what is now Apache HTTPD 2.0 is also
, provisions are made for individuals to get attention to
be focused on issues that they feel are important, individuals or even
small groups can flesh out concepts that may initially be controversial,
and a safety valve is provided so that forward progress can still be made.
- Sam Ruby
consequences of a given set of design
choices. Generally what occurs is one dies of natural causes. In other
cases, a merge occurs as the ultimately it becomes possible to
objectively determine if some of the promised benefits are fact or fantasy.
- Sam Ruby
h then:
http://marc.theaimsgroup.com/?l=ant-dev&m=97743388217180&w=2
- Sam Ruby
as Tomcat 5.0.
> How do you feel about this?
I feel that this advice was followed extremely closely.
- Sam Ruby
that does the Gump runs and upload the results.
- Sam Ruby
ems are reflected today on the mailing list.
+1
- Sam Ruby
ng and self-regulating. In my admittedly biased opinion,
Jakarta largely meets this criteria, with some some glaringly obvious
exceptions that are being addressed.
- Sam Ruby
army. The can't be trusted to
do as they are told.
- Sam Ruby
tor, or be incorporated inside an existing community – as long as
all participants in that larger community are treated as peers.
- Sam Ruby
ne, unlike www.apache.org
where only a few do)
A very small adjustment to the proposal: make community.apache.org/~name
redirect to ~name/public_html/community or some such. This makes it
completely opt-in. Those that don't want to participate, are not affected.
- Sam Ruby
Ben Hyde wrote:
I'm concerned that a few highly vocal members might generate the
impression that the foundation is taking positions that it's not.
I would be much more concerned about committers having @apache.org
mailing list addresses.
- Sam Ruby
rward files for e-mail for quite some time.
Would the mere act of putting a one line .forward file into your
~/public_html directory with your favorite URL be OK?
- Sam Ruby
Ben Hyde wrote:
//www.apache.org/foundation/members.html
I'd be more comfortable if the individual committer pages were
hosted outside the apache.org domain, as is the case with this
example. - ben
With a few notable exceptions, for example: http://www.apache.org/~fielding/
- Sam Ruby
My opinions exactly match Ken's below.
- Sam Ruby
Rodent of Unusual Size wrote:
it looks like several issues are getting conflated again.
1. should people be permitted to have/publish *.apache.org/~name pages?
2. should they follow any sort of guidelines?
3. should there be a list of th
nk the idea has value, particularly since it won't affect *you* in any way.
(generic 'you' there, not anyone in mind at all.
The ASF I wish to be a part of is one and/or create is one that
tolerates differences in points of view or approach to solving problems.
- Sam Ruby
way to address this is via education and community pressure.
- Sam Ruby
yone out there willing to contribute specific proposals along
these lines?
- Sam Ruby
links I have visited.
Now there is a directory for committers (several, actually). Let's
combine the best from each, adding guidelines where necessary, and move
forward.
- Sam Ruby
and stable location.
- Sam Ruby
Rodent of Unusual Size wrote:
Sam Ruby wrote:
Fire away with comments, criticisms, suggestions, and most importantly,
patches. I believe that this addresses most, if not all, of the
concerns identified to date. If not, let me know.
i would prefer to have my name link to my cvs.apache.org/~coar
Rodent of Unusual Size wrote:
'nother thought. do we want to include in the karma column modules
which aren't available through anoncvs/viewcvs?
Fixed.
- Sam Ruby
o know if the person is a member.
This provides a such information all in one place.
If I get time, I might take a pass at Sam's perl script and tweaking it
accordingly. If someone beats me, great. =)
Other than that, it's a great step in the right direction! Go Sam! =)
Thanks!
- S
for input into your
http://www.apache.org/~stefano/community/ page.
- Sam Ruby
e.org/viewcvs.cgi/site/xdocs/foundation/members.xml
As a member, you have commit access.
- Sam Ruby
://jakarta.apache.org/turbine/maven/team-list.html
If this were done, I would gladly aggregate the results back into the
ASF wide committer list.
- Sam Ruby
I selected Ken's entry as his information looked a bit more complete
than others).
- Sam Ruby
iew). Also, not all committers have
access to daedalus, and some people have hosted other content there
without intending it to be a home page.
All in all, my suggestion is that if no URL is provided, then treat this
as an indication that no further information is available.
- Sam Ruby
er, and monitored by
the community/ies in which that committer participates. In the case of
Maven, it would seem to me that a or element inside
elements in project.xml files would be most appropriate.
- Sam Ruby
al to
explicitly provide it, and will be monitored and maintained by the project.
After that point, one of us will screen scrape it. ;-)
- Sam Ruby
cluding
perl/php/...)
It would really be nice if the Maven/Gump/Forrest/Trove/etc. descriptors
could be converged. With a base vocabulary that all can share, and an
ability to have namespace qualified tool extensions.
- Sam Ruby
P.S. Gump is capable of running anything that can be run via the
Steven Noels wrote:
Sam Ruby wrote:
It would really be nice if the Maven/Gump/Forrest/Trove/etc.
descriptors could be converged. With a base vocabulary that all can
share, and an ability to have namespace qualified tool extensions.
Yup - so what do you think: should/could this be something to
to become embroiled in this dicussion).
It certainly is easier to migrate content that exists, even if it is in
the wrong format, than content that does not exist.
- Sam Ruby
opportunity to discuss a problem that they are
working on.
2) This being said, no *DECISIONS* should be made on behalf of projects
in this manner. In particular, VOTES should be on mailing list unless
there is consensus by all the participants otherwise.
- Sam Ruby
community and there likely
isn't any IP issues, I don't see the point of incubation in this case.
I'd say use committers CVS and community mailing list for now. If/when
it become a full fledged project, simply present a resolution
http://mapper.acme.com/?lat=35.708298&long=-78.695515003&scale=13&theme=Image&dot=Yes
Repetively click on "in".
"ICBM", eh? Gulp.
- Sam Ruby
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is: who is liable?
- Sam Ruby
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ages above). Others
I'll batch up and forward to the board and/or licensing folk.
By the board meeting after that (3rd week in March), I'd like to have
the infrastructure issues resolved (where should this data should be
hoste
. Others
I'll batch up and forward to the board and/or licensing folk.
By the board meeting after that (3rd week in March), I'd like to have
the infrastructure issues resolved (where should this data should be
hosted, mirrored, etc).
- Sam Ruby
--
27;d like to have
the infrastructure issues resolved (where should this data should be
hosted, mirrored, etc).
- Sam Ruby
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---
ld
not be any different than using EMACs. Preferably, the build should
skip this step if checkstyle is not available.
- Sam Ruby
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is removed from the repository
(being careful to make sure we don't break build procedures, updating
docs, etc.)
Confirmed.
- Sam Ruby
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r than I have reviewed the license and not come to the same conclusion.
Part of the issue is that the terms "object link" are not well defined
for Java programs. In many was, import in Java operates much as
#include does in C.
- Sam Ruby
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s one of "value add".
On the other side, negotiating exemptions or rewording of licenses is
good, but it is a heavy and difficult path.
It's sad, but we want to play by the rules until we manage to change
them ;-)
+1
Regards,
Santiago
- Sam Ruby
--
nd works as you fear above. Protocols
(such as XML RPC or SOAP) are fine.
ISTR code being removed from PHP due to such considerations, but it has
been a while since I have been involved with that project.
- Sam Ruby
-
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ove to see this resolved.
- Sam Ruby
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eek to verify that there is a compelling compensating benefit
before I would consider making such things a requirement. By necessity,
such decisions need to be made on a case by case basis.
- Sam Ruby
-
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Is this clarification sufficient? If not, what more do we require?
If there is a list of unowned todos to be resolved, I'll follow up on them.
Original Message
Subject: Prof Eben Moglen on L/GPL and jars
Date: Thu, 20 Feb 2003 09:59:02 -0800 (PST)
From: J Aaron Farr <[EMAIL
itely rolled back if an issue is raised. I plan to do
exactly that.
- Sam Ruby
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uld be authored for consideration by the board.
The idea of such committer initiated proposals do not concern me, unless
such proposals attempt to establish responsibility for items that are
within the scope of other, existing projects.
- Sam Ruby
---
Jason as a committer to Alexandria (where Gump was at the
time, and Maven initially formed). I supported his movement of Maven
from Alexandria to Turbine. And now I have indicated that I will
abstain when the actual board vote is held on Maven becoming a top level
project.
- Sam Ruby
Jason van
My opinion is that the board should take this suggestion very seriously.
Original Message
Subject: RE: [proposal] daedalus jar repository (was: primary
distribution location)
Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2003 14:54:20 -0500
From: "Noel J. Bergman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To:
or the ASF
benefit from doing so here?
3) A challenge to the Maven developers: what would it take to convert
Xalan to use Maven? The reason for this challenge is simple: to
demonstrate the the antipathy towards other ASF efforts is damaging not
only to the ASF, but to Maven itself.
- Sam Ruby
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>
> -----Sam Ruby <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: -
>
>> Now that the initial board discussion on the Maven resolution has
>> been held, a few thoughts...
>
>> 1) It was made quite clear to me by a number of directors that it
>&g
ial moderator.
If/when there is an infrastructure.apache.org set up, I'll move the list
to there. (currently it is [EMAIL PROTECTED]).
If there is significant dissent, or the list falls into disuse, I'll
simply delete the list.
- Sam Ruby
---
project (i.e., submitting a
resolution to the board) can be used to ammend a project.
-- jt
- Sam Ruby
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Andrew C. Oliver wrote:
Who is on the current "scholarship" board? Any apache folks? Are you
able to comment?
Yes, Apache is on the "scholarship" board.
If you want to discuss this further, you might consider joining the
[EMAIL PROTECTED] maili
JCP?
We've been through this before. The list is has no Sun employees on it.
It has only Apache members. They make decisions on behalf of the ASF.
You can choose to no longer be a member of the ASF. You can choose
not to participate. At the moment, you have chosen the former and not
the
How you can prove a negative (i.e., that you had access to such
information but never actually took advantage of it), is beyond me.
What should we call this proposed list?
- Sam Ruby
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0
Gosh, Sam, you really look younger than your age ;-)
Anyway, such a site would be *SUPER ILLEGAL* in europe and, I'll tell
you what, my gut feeling is that I'd really like it to remain so.
That guy does exist.
Want to see something scary? Type in "Sam Ruby NC" in google.
the subject. At the time, it was clear that his
focus on on the 'one true programming language'.
Sometimes it sucks to be four years ahead of your time.
- Sam Ruby
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For addit
agers themselves should be
demanding to be on the pmc (rather than 'release managers must be on the
pmc' as an edict).
I *like* that interpretation.
- Sam Ruby
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Leo Simons wrote:
If there's enough volunteers.
So, far, are there *ANY* volunteers?
- Sam Ruby
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d all
interested parties. This new committee is chaired by Brian Fitzpatrick.
- Sam Ruby
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there effectively were a number of ASF people who were participating as
"independents" in the JCP process. And there was interest from the ASF
in formalizing this.
If we create a formal relationship with OASIS, I want to ensure that it
is sustainab
losest thing I see to that in your email is a suggestion that we
let the Eclipse Foundation be the final arbiter in who the Apache
Software Foundation will allow to be listed as an official mirror.
- Sam Ruby
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Nicola Ken Barozzi wrote:
Since you don't seem sensible to common sense
[snip]
Just don't expect to change people, as it will never happen, especially
if you are attacking them.
Consider taking your own advice.
- Sam Ruby
--
mind, you also need to start at the same place
as Stefano indicated.
- Sam Ruby
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rd - noone. That was also bad.
I can't fix the past, but...
Sam reaches for brakes.
Sam grasps brakes.
Sam pulls.
- Sam Ruby
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Niclas Hedhman wrote:
On Tuesday 28 September 2004 20:27, Sam Ruby wrote:
Niclas Hedhman wrote:
Rightly or wrongly so, the tone of "competition" in Avalon was set well
before the emergence of Merlin. That was bad. So now the train was
moving, and noone pulled the breaks, not any indiv
Niclas Hedhman wrote:
On Tuesday 28 September 2004 22:08, Sam Ruby wrote:
Hindsight is easy, and I am not sure whether your intention is to punish
parts (not all) of those who made it happen, plus some people who hasn't
been involved (for instance commercial users).
The intent is not to p
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