Too Angry

Not sure if anyone's noticed, but the quantity of posts is down from my habitual rate.

Turns out my muse doesn't care for me when I'm seething in anger with my own team.

It also turns out that my reply to all of the "pro-gun" nonsense really should have been, "I can see what you're saying, but it hasn't worked yet."

Not once.

Not before I started paying attention to it, not after.

I dunno about a lot of the "pro-gun" crowd, but I've been here since before 1994.

I know I've met a lot of people that didn't start being pro-gun until 2008 and weren't really into guns before 2004 and never really dealt with defeat after defeat.

People who weren't around when you could be kicked off a range for bringing any gun affected by the Clinton AWB.  Before William Jefferson Clinton was even elected president.

Playing nice and being the gun owners that didn't offend the gun-grabbers didn't work.

Kicking the people with the black guns to the curb didn't work.

Well, didn't work for us who wanted to keep our guns.

Worked great for the anti-gun side.

For something as important as a civil right, you'd think we'd stop backing losing strategies and look to try new things to see if they work.

You'd think we'd learn from the Fudds tossing the AR owners under the bus that we have to embrace the weirdos.  Because today's weird is tomorrow's mainstream.

I cannot stress enough that there are lots of things about owning guns which freak the mundanes.  The "pro-gun" side worries incessantly about freaking them out, but forgets that the mundanes are actually quite adaptable.

But you don't dare use the absolute best example of that freaking turning into acceptance; because the worst of the "pro-gun" crowd are also the most freaked by what I'm talking about.  Homosexuals.

The LGBT crowd did not back down from freaking the mundanes, they embraced it.  They won.

They tried novel strategies and abandoned those which were ineffective.

But we can't emulate "the fags" because...  God says so, I guess.  As if using the same methodology as the LGBT makes us gay as well?

The mundane aren't partisan.  Not like the people on both sides of the gun debate.  They, for the most part, don't have a side here.

When they freak, it can be alarming.  But after a couple of fruitless freak outs, they notice that they didn't even get hurt, let alone die from what freaked them out and they begin to accept...  But they won't start to accept until they've been exposed to things that will scare them.

What we need to be is aware of this and be willing to inoculate them with exposure.

We need to not reinforce the talking points of the anti-gun side by panicking that a mundane was exposed and freaked.

Tempting Two Seventy

Did a more thorough inspection of the Savage 110 at the local pawn.

$205 out the door would take it.

$50 for a take-off stock from GunBroker.

$255 ain't bad for a .270 WCF Savage 110, long-action, staggered-feed, blind-magazine, top-bolt-release.

The Redfield scope that comes with it is actually a Deerfield...  Not so great, but we've accumulated several better pieces of glass than it while buying even BETTER glass for other guns.  This, Mom, is why we don't throw things away!

An E.R. Shaw barrel in the preferred-by-some-due-to-religious-fervor .30-06 is another $200.

$455 for a .30-06 Savage 110, long-action, staggered-feed, blind-magazine, top-bolt-release; is less tempting.  Especially when you can get a brand new .30-06 Model 111 Trophy Hunter for nearly the same price; Nikon scope, AccuTrigger®, detachable magazine and all.  It'd be fun though!

An oddity:

Does that recoil lug look bent to you?  How does that happen with a .270?

Cheap Fudd Guns

Thanks to Bubba, there's a supply of guns out there that while perfectly serviceable, are ugly.

One of the local pawns has an older blind-magazine, top style bolt lock Savage long action in .270.

The action looks fine.

It's the stock that's ugly.  The wood is yellow and covered in a thick coat of varnish.  There's images of bears engraved in the butt and grip with "claw marks" for traction on the forearm.

The contours of the wood make it seem like they saw a picture of a stock, bought a 4x6 and started carving.

$225 for the rifle with a Redfield scope.  $69 for an economy grade California Claro Walnut, unfinished, 99% fitted stock.  Add labor and...  Nice rifle!

Maybe even worth more than what's spent on it.

Update:

You could even fish around GunBroker for a used stock too.  $55 buy it now would get you there.

Available

A while back I had plans to convert Agnes from the Axis style detachable magazine to Savage's Premium DBM style.

While the Premium DBM magazines are more expensive than the Axis style, they're supposed to be better.

The more I look at it, the less sure I am of that claim.  Because the difference between the two magazines is the floor plate.  They use the exact same body, spring and follower.

The difference in the floor plate is because they use different means of latching.

The Axis has the plastic hook, the Premium has a notch and the latch is a lever on the gun.

I've been mulling it for a while and noticed something at five stocking Savage dealers.

The only Premium DBM magazines they have are in the guns they're selling with them.  But they have spare Axis mags in abundance.

Even if the Axis latch is a fragile piece of crap, I can buy three replacement magazines for what the conversion costs, and I can actually buy replacement magazines at the local stores on short notice in the case of a breakage.  If they ever fix their web page, you can even buy replacement floor plates too.

Savage Appearance

The Savage 110 is described in many places as being ugly or funny looking.

I think I figured out why.  The bolt handle is at the extreme rear of the bolt.  Most other bolt guns have a shroud behind it, and that balances the looks summat.

I Am Surprised

I actually own 4 of the guns listed.

I am shocked!

Level

There's nothing more fun than doubting if a scope is mounted level because the crosshairs are canted when resting on a bipod.

Either the bipod has one leg longer than the other, its base is canted or the swivel stud it's mounted to is off center.

Because I've checked that the scope is level with the gun now.

This just doesn't come up with scopes with built in bases like you often see on AR's.

Bolt Gun Comparison Photo

Top: Savage 110XP Trophy Hunter in .270 Win.
Bottom: Weatherby Vanguard in .243 Win.

Lots of the same and lots of difference.

I even found an old Uncle Mike's sling in my holster and sling box, complete with QD swivels.  I think I used to keep it on my Remington 870 when it was still wood-stocked.

Arrival

I finally have a wooden stocked, scoped bolt action in a non-military caliber.

It might just be something of a collector's item since it's from the last year of the old logo.  Savage dumped poor Chief Lame Deer's likeness for a some modern art masterpiece (denying that political correctness had anything to do with the decision).

I've been buying C&R and used and building guns from parts, I forgot that new guns came in boxes!

This is not how it arrived at the FFL.  It was wrapped in the plastic and the magazine was with the bolt in the "Bolt and Kit Enclosed" section.

It's your basic cock-on-open sporting rifle.

Claw extractor and plunger ejector with your basic two locking lugs on the floaty Savage bolt head.

It's got an Accutrigger®.  That extension on the front of the trigger guard is the bolt release.  Savage takes a breeches and belt approach to bolt removal.  Pull and hold the trigger, open the bolt, pull bolt to the rear and pull the bolt release (while still holding the trigger).  You're never going to accidentally remove the bolt.

I will have to take Marv's trigger scale to it, but it seems lighter and smoother than even FuzzyGeff's Weatherby Vanguard!  It's making me consider changing over to one on my 93F.

Update:  It measured 2 lb. 8 oz. out of the box, the Weatherby measured 4 lb. 6 oz.

A three position safety with a position that locks the bolt.

The detachable magazine is of the newer centerfeed design with a Stevens/Savage Axis style latch.  Presumably this is to keep the price point on the package rifles down.

This magazine is much maligned, but I don't think it's going to be an issue.

Although it is not marked "Prostaff" anywhere, the Nikon scope matches it in every particular I've been able to find.

I would like to thank the Veteran's Administration for making my disability payments on time and Willard for the generous bribes that made this purchase possible.

To the range!

Friends In Low Places

The place where I heard the rumor of $99 Savage 93F's says that they "talked to the guy behind the counter" and they looked up the rifle and got the price and location of stores with it in stock.

I happen to know someone who works at Wally World...  He's a guy.  He's been spotted behind the counter there a time or two.

So I asked.

While he didn't know the procedure to find this information, a handy co-worker there did!

All we needed was a pic of Marv's UPC from his recent purchase mentioned in the open letter below.

She looked up three locations that claim to have it in stock and the price in the national system is, indeed, $99.

That's well below the "what the heck?" gun purchase price point.  Even with the lack of .22 WMR ammo.

Low Price Leader

Found it!

I think...

The Savage 93F in .22WMR from Wal Mart is model 91803.

The Savage 93F in .22 WMR listed virtually every where else is model 91800.

The MSRP of the 91800 is $265.  Vendors on gunbroker have them as low as $250.

The actual price of the 91803 is $165.

The other difference?  The 91800 has the Accutrigger, the 91803 doesn't.

I guess your personal evaluation of the Accutrigger will decide if the price difference is worth it.

I am presently on the fence.

ORLY

There's rumor that Wal Mart has Savage rimfires for $99...

Even guns that MSRP at $260.

Best I've seen was $168 when I hit the couple Wal Marts near here that sell guns.

Even $168 is near $100 off...  Plus there's a $25 rebate on bolt-action rimfires too.

Plus since it always swings back to GURPS...

The 93F in .22 Mag; 3d-1 pi- damage, 130/1,500 range.

The Agony Is Over

Long Live The Agony!

I just stabbed the "buy it now" button on a Savage 110XP in .270 Winchester.

Wood stock, accutrigger®, Nikon Prostaff glass, cheap plastic Axis style magazine.

Willard talking about how .30-06 is God's Own Caliber got me to notice that the gun for sale had a serial number ending in 666.  .270 is now Satan's Own Caliber!

I now own a Fudd rifle.  I now have a complete set of guns that everyone should own...

It's a rather nebulous and silly list.  It changes moment to moment.

But basically you should have:

Something "modern," black, and military, like an AR, AK or FAL.

Something in a pump action shotgun, 20ga or bigger.

Something in a service pistol 9mm or bigger.

Something in a CCW handgun, .380 or bigger.

Something in a Fudd rifle, no intermediate rounds!  Preferably bolt-action.

Something in an obsolete military pattern rifle.  Preferably with expensive or hard to find ammo!

Something that shoots .22LR.

Something in a wheelgun.  Preferably large bore, preferably impractical.  6" .45 Colt Anaconda is where you're aiming not a J-Frame for your pocket!

You Can Just Buy One?

I mentioned previously that when scopes caught on and many older guns with irons were drilled and tapped, that the Lyman peep sights they often sported were discarded.

It was a Lyman W48 (or maybe 48WJS).

Lyman still makes a peep that should work, the 57WJS.

Measure Twice Cut Once

Took a second look at the Savage 111FCNS the pawn shop has marked at $325.

Weaver bases installed, nice shiny bore, no magazine.

Considering the price of the rifle and adding a scope and rings came in just under the price of a brand new 110XP, it was tempting.

No magazine is a substantial hurdle.  Savage has too many different magazines to select from and you really can't tell which one you're supposed to have on a top-bolt-release gun until you run the serial number...  Something that you really can't do until you've already bought the gun.

Willard keeps telling me that I should get my FUDD rifle in an AMERICAN caliber, like .30-06, and be a man about it.  He's even bribing me.

My objection that .270 is an American caliber doesn't make an impact.  To be honest, the two main reasons I've fixated on .270 are kinda silly.  It never stopped being available during the ammo panic is the first, and my picking the mutually wrong caliber in the .30-06 vs .280 war my uncles have going on.  The silliest reason is that it's the same .277 bore as my beloved 6.8 SPC.

With his bribe, I am easily able to get the 110XP and change out the magazine.  Or get the pawn-shop 111FCNS and get a magazine and optics mounted.

With difficulty, I could stretch into that Remington 700.

If I abandoned .270 I could easily get that Winchester 670 in 30-06 we saw while Willard was topping JayG's "Snubby from Hell" purchase.

Also in .30-06 is a Winchester Model 54 up at another pawn shop, though I hesitate to jump through all the stupid hoops that place has up for buying a gun when the 54 is a C&R and I'm a Cruffler.  I could get a similar gun for about the same price delivered to the door.

Used Market

In another chapter of McThag's Bolt Gun Agony we find a Savage 111FCNS in .270 Winchester for $325 at a local pawn shop.

I can probably talk them down some.

The only wrinkle is there's no scope at all, so I'd need that and rings.

On the positive side of the ledger is it's already set up for the better magazine.  On the negative, I kinda wanted a wood stock.

Willard says that while a white tail deer can tell the difference, an elk cannot.

A different shop has a Remington 700 in the favored .270 with a Bushnell Banner on it and iron sights.  Walnut and blue with a telepathic trigger.  Just $700, and this shop has shown no give on gun prices before, so that's probably firm (and out of budget).

Sweeten The Pot

Looking on Gunbroker tells us that the Savage 10/110 Trophy Hunter XP can be had for $528.24 from a couple stocking vendors.  Free shipping!  Plus a $25 FFL and background check brings a scoped, detachable magazine bolt action for a mere $553.24 out the door.  $115.15 cheaper than Bass Pro and still eligible for the $75 rebate.

$478.24 total.

Sweet And Sour

That Savage Trophy Hunter package deal is not perfect.

The package series has the Axis style magazine, which is all plastic and several people have noted that the $45 $40 magazines breaking off their locking tab and some reports of the plastic rear peg wearing out prematurely.

On the plus side, the Trophy Hunter has a $75 rebate if you buy soon.

I've been doing some reading on it and it appears that you can retrofit the all-metal magazine system from a normal 11/110 to the XP.  Research continues.

To change the magazine system from a plastic latch on the magazine to a metal latch on the "frame" you need:

Frame Assembly Long, Matte NBR (DBM) p/n 106706; $78

Trigger Guard Assembly, Matte RI p/n 107217; $26

Magazine Box - 110FC/ 111FC (25-06 Rem, 270 Win, 30-06, 7x57mm Mauser) Bottom Release Latch, Matte Blued p/n 55117; $52

Or plus $156 and shipping.

Bringing the tinkered cost of the rifle to $749.39 plus shipping on the parts.

OR for even more you can convert to AICS magazines with a Pacific Tool and Gauge trigger guard, just $152.75 for the guard and another $40 for a Magpul AICS compatible magazine.

OR for even more you can make a similar conversion using CDI Precision Gunworks (just down the road in Sarasota, FL!)  $209 plus installation (free if you ship them your rifle).  Hmmmm, I wonder if they'd let a blogger bring down a rifle for conversion and let him take pictures and ask questions as if he were the media or something...

GURPS It's Always GURPS

With the Mosin conversion we get...

7.62x54mmR.  7d pi damage, 5+3 Acc, 1,000/4,200 range and either 5(2i) or 10+1(3) shots.

With the savage package we get...

.243 Win.  7d-1 pi damage, 6+3 Acc, 840/4,300 range and 4+1(3) shots.  8.5/0.2 lb.
.270 Win.  7d+2 pi damage, 6+3 Acc, 950/4,100 range and 4+1(3) shots.  9.3/0.3 lb.
.280 Rem. 7d pi damage, 6+3 Acc, 910/4,500 range and 4+1(3) shots.  9.3/0.3 lb.
.308 Win.  7d pi damage, 6+3 Acc, 1,000/4,200 range and 4+1(3) shots.  8.7/0.3 lb.
.30-06.  7d+1 pi damage, 6+3 Acc, 1,100/4,300 range and 4+1(3) shots.  9.3/0.3 lb.

All that's left to compare would be the weights.  The Savages are 8.3 lb. empty in .243 and .308; and 9.05 lb. in .270 and .30-06.

The Mosin started at 8.7 empty.  The wood is 3.1 lb.  The ATI stock is 2.9; Archangel is 3.8.

So 8.5 and 9.4 empty.

The trigger is a net zero change.

The scope mount is 0.1 lb.

The scope and rings are a pound.  Bringing the Mosin project to 9.6 or 10.5 lb empty depending on stock.

GURPS uses loaded weight so 9.9/0.3 and 11.1/0.7 for the ATI and Archangel respectively.

Bubba Math

A Savage 10/110 XP Trophy Hunter Package is $619.99 plus tax ($43.40 in FL) and and background ($5) from Bass Pro.  That gets you a scoped rifle with a match trigger and detachable magazine for $668.39 in your choice of calibers.

We're going to approach ordering the Mosin one thing at a time because that's been presented as a budgetary concern as opposed to saving a bit on shipping by ordering all at once (which I will also show).

A bog-standard Mosin-Nagant M91/30 from AIM surplus is $269.95, plus shipping ($18.47), background ($5) and FFL fee ($35 average).  That gets you a long, heavy milsurp rifle for $328.42.

The cheapest stock Midway has is an Advanced Technology monte-carlo for $79.99 plus $10.79 shipping.

The more desirable Archangel stock is $169.99 and $13.19 shipping.

The Timney match trigger runs $99.99 and $4.99 shipping.

A scope mount (with bent bolt handle kit) is $27.99 plus $4.99 shipping.

The Nikon ProStaff 3-9x40 that the Savage comes with is $179.95 with free shipping!

The cheapest 1" rings from Midway are Tasco for $5.99 and we'll order them with the scope.

Our money saving Mosin-Nagant is now a $743.10 rifle in a monte-carlo stock or $835.30 in an Archangel.

That drops to $3.20 shipping total ($17.57 savings) or $725.53 if you order the monte-carlo option all at once and $6.50 for the Archangel ($16.67 saved) or $818.63.

This values your labor and time at $0, because the bolt kit requires some sawing and tapping.

To skip drilling and tapping, a scope mount that replaces the rear sight is $14.99 plus $5.99 shipping from Sportsman's Guide.

A couple places offer doing the bolt for you for $50 or so.

That changes the final price to $781.10 or $873.30.

I've also noticed that this time around doing this exercise that a lot of the people who were doing Mosin parts have vanished.  It's a rough market.

I will add the caveat that if you're doing a Mosin to make a good FUDD rifle, this is a bad plan.  If you're doing it for the fun of gathering and assembling parts, then it's your fun, ENJOY!

Just don't stand there and tell me you saved money by starting on a Mosin.

Assuming that all that gets you as good a gun as the Savage, the break even price point on the host Mosin is $212.81 with the cheapest upgrade package.  You can also shave money by getting cheap on the glass, but it's another false economy.