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Death, Life, Pain, Salvation Seasons, Secular Wings, Trauma Talk

There Are No Words – Repost

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Originally posted December 14, 2012.

The above link leads to the post I was looking for yesterday.  So I’m posting it today.  Because of my own anniversary(ies) of loss, I always remember Sandy Hook. 

I wonder if as a species our survival would have been hampered without the concept of an after-life?  Perhaps it was an evolutionary necessity.

It’s days like today and for that matter every day is a day like today for someone somewhere in this world.  Death.  By natural causes, by tragedy.   I sat this morning mulling over my own thoughts about 5:30 a.m. not knowing what the day would bring.  Then as often happens I sit and catch a bit of news at noon and I learn of the Connecticut shooting.  December is a sensitive month for me.  A miscarriage, an uncle’s suicide, a friend’s death in a car accident and a friend’s teenage son’s suicide (all happening over many years.)  When I heard today’s news I remember being seven years old and seeing my classmate fatally hit by a car and I remember that night not being able to sleep as the tragedy played over and over in my mind.  I asked my mom for comfort and I remember not being comforted at all.  Either she didn’t know how to answer my questions or thought the less said the better.  I don’t know.  To be fair, I’m not sure I could have been comforted.  But I do know that night I wanted to know where my dead classmate was.  I wanted to know if he was in heaven.

I don’t care what anyone says (meaning this in the general sense) . . . this is why humanity needs a heaven.  Whether it be one of the religious heavens, a new age heaven or some ancient tribal heaven.  The death of a child, any child, regardless of race, creed or colour . . . one can understand (or speaking for myself) I can understand why a heaven is needed at times like this.  There will be parents tonight not knowing what to say to their surviving children and there will be parents comforting their children with the talk of heaven.  Can we blame them?  I can’t.

Please don’t think I am comparing my tragedy with those of today.  I’m not.

Aging, Agnosticism/Atheism, American Billboards, Blogging, Christian Years, Christianity, conspiracy, Emotions, Healing, Heretic Years, Humanist, Islam, Leaving Christianity, Life, Pain, Personal Memoirs, Personal Recovery, Politics, QAnon and others, Salvation Seasons, Secular Wings, Spiritual Abuse, Trauma Talk, Zoe's favourites

In case anyone else wants to know where I’m coming from, where I’ve been and where I’m headed.

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Violet: “If I were asked which country in the world hates the US the most, I would have to say it’s Canada.”

Zoe:  I would say if I was asked, the U.S. does a fine job of hating itself and one another.  Then maybe China and North Korea might hate you more than Canadians.  Of course, I don’t know which Canadians or Canadian bloggers you are referring too.

Violet:  “I don’t know why, but it seems it’s a Canadian religion to bash Americans every chance they get. You know what’s odd? I almost never hear of Americans having vitriol for our neighbors North of the boarder.”

Zoe:  Almost never but sometimes?

Violet:  “I notice that you never talk about your own country on this blog, but persistently harp on every flaw Americans have. I’ve read many Canadian blogs but have had to bow out of all of them for this same reason.”

Zoe:  I gave up talking about my own country when my adult children assumed positions in the community and province that would expose them if people knew who their mom was and what she was writing online.  That’s also when I chose the option for search engines to ignore my blog.  I also moved here to this new url (14 years ago according to my WordPress Anniversary notice last week) when I made those decisions.  Up and until then I was followed by bloggers all over the world in the Christian community.  During that time I spoke up politically about Canada frequently as it pertained to religion, not just Christianity but often involving Islam.  I wrote frequently about honour killings and wrote a long article encouraging a former Premier to outlaw Sharia law.  The next day he did.  Did he see my article?  I don’t know.   The point being I was a prolific writer and at that time unafraid in regards to my government.  I have been a political person my entire life, having written to my Canadian government during my college years as well as being outspoken in the community, medical and educational system.  I’ve also had politicians in my family.  It’s in me.  As well I have been an advocate for the abused outside the church, for those with special needs, for those who are dying and in the mental health field.  At one point, I became very concerned about exposure and people figuring out who Zoe was/is.  I also developed a fear because I was outspoken regarding Islam and the honour killings happening here.  I was brave then.  I’m not now.  And though I wrote about this in a previous blog and during my busier blogging days, I was scared to death of a former friend’s “lover” who at one time was involved with (removed as this info. can still trigger me).  Shortly after being verbally and abusively in written form, attacked by her, my husband had to pick me up off the floor from being shattered in a million pieces as she told me I was an abomination to the Lord and responsible for raising and immoral and corrupt generation of children.  Narcissists love to hit you where your strengths are.  Meanwhile she’s carrying on an affair with a converted preacher (removed this info. as it is still triggering) guy.  But I’m the abomination.  And just sharing that there is too much information to put in a blog.

In my 30’s I fought for my life with severe illness, spending almost 2 years in bed, only later to be hospitalized and fighting for my life sick with intestinal disease as well as battling a body and mind that were deteriorating.  If I’m not mistaken, you suffer as well.  In my 40’s I began to deconstruct my religion and belief system understanding that I was falling apart emotionally and mentally due to Christian abuse and felt the extreme weight of guilt and shame for having taken part in it, raising my children in it, losing friends over it and being active in youth ministry.   As well, I began to develop deep understanding of the roots of original trauma from my youth.  I’ve never been the same since.  This blog is read by maybe 6 people though all kinds of people *follow* it and commenting here is at a minimum.  You have been privy I believe to some of my password protected posts and know some of the shit I’ve been through.  You also know I’m not a human being who ignores the humanity of other people.

Violet:  “We’re PEOPLE, Zoe. Just people, trying to get through our day despite being ruled by an imperfect government. Just like everyone else on earth.”

Zoe:  On the night I posted David Frum’s Twitter message, I had been texting my close friend who is American and lives in Michigan.  She told me she was terribly depressed about the U.S. President, the postal service debacle, and told me “Don’t come here, it’s awful!”  She forgot that we can’t go there as our border is not open.  My point being, she was terribly upset and in the years I’ve known her I have not heard her admit to this kind of depression.  I tried to lift her spirits and planned to talk to her the next day.  And so I did for several hours.  She kept asking why these people in the U.S. believed Trump.  How can they not see he’s lying, his narcissism, his cruelty.  We talked about David Frum’s Twitter message.  I found it interesting, so I posted it.  She hesitated to talk about the QAnon stuff because she knows it triggers me and I told her we both could talk about it since we both were upset about it.  I don’t go on and on in writing anymore Violet.  I’m tired.  I’m no longer going to invest in the behind the scenes explanations.  No one reads here because I write great instructive exposes on anything.  This is like a personal diary that I sometimes write poorly in and for the most part anyone that reads here and sometimes comments here has done so with grace.  I suspect many have moved on.   And that’s not a problem with me.  Every day I think about moving on too.  Often I can’t even form sentences anymore.  I might start something and not bother with commentary on it.  I’m just putting it here for something to do.

Anything I write regarding the U.S. is because I’m fucking shitless scared of the world we are living in.  Yes Violet, I’m a people too.  And yes, the U.S. is a big part of my life from the time my ancestors landed on your eastern shores.  The branch I was in stayed loyal to the throne and headed north.   Others stayed south.  In doing so, some of my ancestors died before they got here.  They were considered traitors.  Some of my ancestors came up the St. Lawrence and participated in establishing a Christian religion and nation by eliminating Indigenous peoples all in the name of Christ.

The U.S. Southern Baptists highly influenced the Independent Fundamentalist Baptist Church here in Canada and to tell you the truth, the U.S. was the bees knees and we were beneath them when it came to the one true religion.  Our speakers on creationism, evolution, abortion and demonic activity travelled from the U.S. to tell us all about it.  The gospel groups came from the U.S. to sing their praises.  Our printed materials for Sunday School came from the U.S.  to indoctrinate our children.  Our youth programming came from the U.S.  Seminars and mission events were held in the U.S.  We were inundated with the U.S. conservative evangelical movement and when the church growth movement started, we did it too.  During my short stint in Bible College some of our full-time profs were Americans.

We have friends and family in the U.S.  By the way, the U.S. family are very conservative and think we Canadians aren’t the sharpest tools in the tool chest.  Talk about vitriol.

When I came online in 2001 , to forums looking for help with spiritual abuse I knew not one Canadian.  When I started blogging a few years later, I still did not know one Canadian blogger.  When it came to Christian blogs they were American.  I literally lived in the American Christian world day and night online.  The books I read were written my American authors.  The forums were run by Americans.  It formed my world view both religiously and politically.  And though when I deconstructed what I use to believe I slowly left that world with as much grace as I could knowing that once again I was disappointing people I had networked with for years.

When I started writing as an agnostic and then an agnostic atheist I found only one online atheist woman and she was American.  She stopped blogging years ago.   Later I found John Loftus’s blog and though it was way out of my league that’s where I started to learn of others who had left Christianity and were blogging about it.  Then over the years, ex-Christian blogs blew up all over the place and guess what?  All American.  I was still fully engaged in the U.S. as we all wrote about, commented on and discussed leaving the faith.  I think a few other Canadians were in the mix but I no longer know as I myself don’t read hardly any blogs.  If you look at my list of blog sites, almost all of them are dormant as many people aren’t blogging anymore.  I still leave some of their blogs listed just in case by chance someone pops in here looking for information and maybe then they can find stuff that will help them with their doubt and changing beliefs.  Maybe they won’t feel so alone.

So I’ve just sat around in here, though less and less as the years pass by, toying a bit  I suppose with what might have been or what should have been.   Then Covid-19 startled not only me, but you and an entire universe with traumatic changes.  I decided to try and develop a cohesive way of learning about QAnon and trying to understand mom so that every single time I am in touch with her I am not literally slain and knocked off my feet for days, weeks &/or months at a time.  And I’m sorry but I can’t talk about QAnon without talking about the U.S. President, his government and the people who believe it.  And yes, we have QAnon here in Canada but every bit of mom’s stuff comes from U.S. websites.  So I am pissed beyond measure.  I’ve been traumatized since Trump came down the escalator.  I’m not the only one.  And yes I know people are dying and starving and killing one another and despairing.  I bloody well know that Violet.  And though you aren’t reading this, I’m content to know you’ve moved on because this blog doesn’t meet your expectations anymore.  Hell, it doesn’t meet mine, apart from the fact that I can come in here because it is my blog and prattle on about what ever it is that is making me sick to my stomach at the moment.

Violet:  “I initially came to this blog because we both had similar experiences of being beaten down by religion. Religion was something I was born into and had no control over when I was a child. Now I’m leaving this blog because because I’m being beaten down for being American…something I was also born into and have no control over. You can say I’m taking things too personally, but when I read post after post of hatred toward the US, I feel unwelcome here.”

Zoe:  You can take it personally.  If there’s anything I’ve learned now by age 64 is that a woman has every right to take whatever it is that she finds offensive and hateful and leave.  I don’t hate the U.S. Violet.  That is over the top.  It’s because I care that I’m angry, scared and traumatized by what’s going on.   I am taking what is going on in the U.S. personally.  You want to blame me for hating the U.S. go ahead.  I only hate Trump and the goons who once ran against him and all said on tape that he was terrible in every way shape or form.  Now they have bowed down to him and kissed his ass.  Yes, I take that personally because as the U.S. goes often the world goes and it damn well affects/effects Canadians too.  As well, right from the start, what is going on in the U.S. government reminds me hook, line and sinker of my days in church.  Is this all stuff for a therapist?  Yup.

Violet:  “I wish you only the best on your journey. My journey leads me elsewhere now.”

Zoe:  Okay.  You may feel unwelcome here.  I would never dispute what you feel.  For the sake of people who may read here and wonder, people who have the password to my password protected posts are not unwelcome and Violet, that includes you.  I don’t give my password out to just anybody.  There are people who have asked and I’ve said, no.  We are people and there’s so much more to both of us as human beings than what is shared on this one blog.

Addendum:  For those reading this, I apologize for the discomfort.  I’m feeling it too.  I do not expect anyone to feel they have to respond &/or comment.  We’re all entitled to come and go and to give voice.

“Say what you want to say and let the words fall out, honestly . . . ” (from the Brave song.)

Christian Years, Emotions, Pain, Personal Memoirs, Salvation Seasons, Secular Wings, Spiritual Abuse, Trauma Talk

Over At Bruce’s

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Another evangelical pastor with a message for Bruce.

As is the case, some of us are responding to pastor Nelson.  My comment follows:

Dear pastor Nelson,

How many people “come to Christ” because they have been hurt and are in pain?

Is their conversion illegitimate because they came to Christ for emotional reasons?

I came to Christ for emotional reasons. I was 13 years old and scared shitless by fear of a parent’s possible death and then retraumatized by camp counsellors a few years older than me telling me that even though I had believed in Jesus I had not yet “asked Him into my heart” therefore headed to hell if by chance I fell off the Lake Erie cliff that day and died.

With tears in my eyes on top of a cabin bunkbed I looked out over the lake fog settled in on the campgrounds and quietly talked with “Jesus” as I understood him at the time. It was all emotion. A sincere young teenage girl sincerely emotional and placing her trust in other teenagers and a few young twenty-year olds and giving up her own intellectual mind to people she somehow thought knew better than her.

So pastor Nelson. Was I saved? Am I truly born-again? It was all emotional.

Secular Wings, Spiritual Abuse, Trauma Talk

Love/Hate Relationships

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… ZOE ~

REPLY

 

Summer of ’69, thirteen.

I had always believed. Not raised in a Christian fundamentalist home. Raised in a highly dysfunctional home.

A loving Jesus came in handy for a traumatized child.

Bible Camp and the born-againers threatened hell and told of a Jesus who not only loved but also hated. The same scenario I was nurtured in at home.

Not only did Jesus love me but He also judged me. Familiar.

Broken with no sure foundation, I took the bait.

 

My contribution to the comment section for Bruce’s blog post HERE.

Bolding emphasis added for my post here.

Christian Years, Christianity, Eve Garden God, Spiritual Abuse, Trauma Talk

My Fault

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This is dialogue I took down yesterday morning on a recent FoxNews segment on Justice with Judge Jeanine and Franklin Graham – Samaritan’s Purse.

JJ: “Why would God allow this kind of thing to happen?”

FG: “Well I don’t think God planned for this too happen. It’s because of the sin that’s in the world judge. Man has turned his back on God and sinned and we need to ask for God’s forgiveness and that’s what Easter is all about. It’s about God so loving the world that he gave his only begotten son that whosoever believeth in him should not perish but have everlasting life. Jesus Christ came to save sinners. He didn’t come to condemn the world but to save the world. And if we put our faith and trust in him he’ll forgive our sins and heal our hearts and he’ll change the course of our lives. And this pandemic, this is the result of a fallen world. A world that has turned its back on God and so I would encourage people to pray and just let’s ask, let’s ask God for help.”

Perhaps I should have posted this yesterday for Palm Sunday.  In prep of course for Easter.

You are vile.  You were born in sin.  God being omniscient, omnipresent and omnipotent set it up this way.  We didn’t get a say in it.  No free will here.

Yet, it’s not God’s fault.  Nope.  It’s your fault.  Mine too.  God set it up but it’s your fault, mine too.

You lousy, despicable, horrible worm-infested Zoe are responsible for this pandemic.

And the great witness of diverse Christians shout into the universe, “No, no Zoe.  You’ve got it all wrong.”  Then each of them presents “their” God.

Secular Wings, Spiritual Abuse, Trauma Talk

New Book re: Ravi Zacharias

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Back in my evangelical days, Ravi was a favoured Christian apologist.  I read three of his books.

As I look back from my vantage point now, most books I read by apologists left me with more questions than answers.  More uncertainty than certainty.  I don’t think they grounded my “faith” that the Bible was true at all.  If anything, apologetics pointed out to me the diversity inside Christianity.  This apologist says that, that apologist says this, scholarship here, scholarship there, here a Christian, there a Christian, every where a Christian Christian.

My struggle to believe these human authors, God’s go-to people, the true Christians, the real Christians, the ethical/moral Christians, the praying Christians, the studied Christians, the honourable Christians, the esteemed speakers of all thing “God” in all Its Triune glory, the “honest” Christians, lead me down that spiral staircase into the realm of:  Why so many different kinds of Christians?  Why so many Biblical interpretations?  Why so many Bibles?  Why don’t all the apologists and scholars agree?  If every *i* be dotted and every *t* be crossed, what the hell is going on?  Naturally, we all know it’s Eve’s fault.  That’s really what’s going on.  Never mind that guy behind the curtain.  God is God.  Leave it at that.  One day you’ll have your mansion over the hilltop.  For now, just believe.  Who cares what the truth is?  Who cares what the story is?

I’ve been following this story about Ravi Zacharias for awhile now.  It may be of some interest to someone here.

It very much reminds me of my days in the church.  Pastors who were not telling the truth.  Sordid details.  Those who confronted the abuse/lies (us) and those who turned a blind eye to the truth, refusing to consider that those men couldn’t possibly be guilty of (insert sordid details here).

Choosing to get-out to maintain our own integrity.  Struggling for years to find out that I do care about the truth and the story.  That’s why I’m now an atheist.  Though I no longer believe my former Christian story, I do care still, about the damage done to those who have been used and abused by my former story and its story-tellers.

https://twitter.com/RaviScam/status/1074802747516436480

Healing, Humanist, My Photos, Nature, Secular Wings

What Story Do You Prefer?

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As we stood and watched the orange dot afterglow I mentioned to Biker Dude that to me, the shadows and curves in the sky looked like mountains in the distance, the redness of the glow made me think of an erupting volcano throwing fire in the sky.  He agreed.

I’ve been following a long conversation.  Last I looked over 800 comments.  Started out about the nativity.  Though it looks as though the conversation meandered away down a few rabbit trails, I don’t think it really did.  It stayed true to the root of most supernatural belief.  Miracles.

People all around the world tend to believe in miracles.  I’m thinking in ancient times when the orange dot came back with light after hours of darkness, that was seen as a miracle, (though they may not have had a word for it yet.)  What else could it be?  It couldn’t possibly be that the ground they were standing on was rotating and in an orbit around the orange dot.  They knew nothing of a natural explanation at the time.

Groups of humans in the far east would have a story about the orange dot and how it came to be and how they all came to be.  Same for those who found themselves living in the far north, the far south and so on.  The stories forming based on the language and the customs/rituals and the beliefs as they too evolved.  Every day when that orange dot appeared, the prayer/language/ritual of each group would essentially as they understood it, prove their prayer/language/ritual was the “true” story.  What else could it be?  They knew nothing of natural explanations.  Imagine if it was possible to do, taking someone from ancient times from the far north and putting them elsewhere in the globe and telling them that their orange dot miracle story is not true at all and that there is another story and it is not only the better story but the “real” true story.  Then they’d see that the orange dot from the north appeared somewhat similar to this new orange dot but couldn’t possibly be the same orange dot and still believed no matter what, that their orange dot story was still the “true” story.  Who knows?  Maybe the first wars were based on the so-called miracle stories about the orange dot.  Is too!  Is not!  Is too!  Is not!  Is . . . kill them!  Sounds like modern times, doesn’t it.

Today we do know more about natural explanations that can explain what we formerly thought of as miracles.

I know Christians who believe my gradual healing and remissions of inflammatory bowel disease was probably due to their Christian prayers.  A miracle.  If I mentioned maybe that along the journey I met perhaps a Jewish doctor, a Muslim pathologist and a Hindu internist who also prayed for me, they’d likely ignore the possibility that those doctor’s prayers to their Ggod(s) had anything to do with my healing or any miracle.  The only acceptable answer to them would be, the healing is related to Christian prayers to their Christian (as they define it – as even there we have variations in belief) God.  If I suggested that my gradual healing might just be luck and/or a lot of hard work on my part, meh, that’s not a good enough story for some people.  If I mentioned that we don’t always understand why healing like this can occur, but we do know and understand now that the immune system is a great tool and healing does occur, they’d still tie in the immune system being altered to my benefit by their Christian prayers to their Christian God.  Still a miracle.   No point in pushing the point about which variation of Christian God.  It’s the God whoever the prayer warriors prayed too.  The one true God.  End of story.  If you don’t like their story/explanation better, well that’s sad.  Too bad for you.  Sounds like religious beliefs, doesn’t it.  If only you’d believe in divine miracles you could change your mind about my Ggod(s) action due to prayer and see that you could have heaven forever.

And though we might not always pick up the sword and kill the infidel (though historically and currently that is done depending on the group and its story), some do remind others with their current stories that they will burn in hell one day (one story one group came up with) or cease to exist, poof, annihilation, (another story) (both claiming though it’s the “real” true story based on the ancient customs/prayers/rituals and language of the ancients who came before).  So in the end really, we do kill them with the stories we humans created.  Not by the sword but by the words, language, rituals and beliefs of the stories that evolved starting with the ancients.  Or wait, no, not us literally, but the orange dot in whom we believe in does the killing.  Unless of course the orange dot gave us free will and we simply choose our death.  The Ggod(s) don’t kill or annihilate, they give you a choice.  Wonder why the Ggod(s) gave us so many stories?  I wonder why natural explanations now are never enough?  Do we have natural explanations for everything?  No.  Are our stories evolving and changing as we learn more from our natural explanations?  Yes.  Has it caused harm to the universe that now we know the ground we walk on is called the earth and the orange dot the sun?  Has humanity spun out of control now that we know the earth revolves around the sun and the sun does not respond to our petitions?  Do we have explanations for everything that each group might call a miracle?  No.  Does that mean in the absence of all explanations and/or answers we have to have the Ggod(s) of your prayers be the explanation?  Do humans want to keep the divine miracle stories because they are a better story, whether they are true or not?

I kind of like my story about the volcanic eruption over the mountains.  In some ways it’s a better story than the truth that it’s just a glorious tropical sunset casting light with the shadows of the darkness setting in against the back drop of the Gulf, the sky, the horizon and the clouds.  In that moment I sort of like my imagination playing with my mind or is it my mind playing with my imagination?  In the end I adjust my eyes and my imagination back to reality though in many ways a part of me wants to stay in my fictional story. As I’ve mentioned before in previous pondering posts, the reality of reality appears to me to be the reason that for many, natural explanations and the eventual uncovering of natural explanations just isn’t a good enough story and it is easier to let go and let Ggod(s) be the reality for reality.  Even though the ancients at the time developed stories of understanding their reality as they knew it, and today we have better understanding of natural explanations than ever before, humans appear to still prefer a world with miracles than a world without.