Tag Archives: myth

The Price of Myth

H.T. – CharliesConvictions

The following quotes comes from a post Charlie did (linked above) and I learned something about the Columbine story that I had never heard before.

Valeen Schnurr doesn’t want her fellow freshmen to know her as Val, the girl from Columbine. Nor does she want to be known as the Girl Who Really Said Yes, or the Living Saint, or the Almost Martyr, even though she is all of those things. And she definitely doesn’t want to be known as the girl who punctured the myth of Cassie Bernall.

There’s a myth about Cassie Bernall?  So I went to searching for more information and sure enough, the girl who almost died a martyr is a girl named Valeen Schnurr, not Cassie Bernall.

The rest of the world can expect no more of a satisfying conclusion. When they publish their final report next year, investigators plan to leave out what they’ve discovered about Cassie. Davis say it’s because “whether Cassie said yes has no bearing on the criminal case.” *But privately, investigators admit they’ll avoid puncturing the myth for the same reason Schnurr did: They won’t risk incurring the rage of a community addicted to it.

* Emphasis added by Zoe.

Of course, the “community” addicted to it are family, friends possibly and almost certainly to a person, Christians and perhaps to a lesser degree anyone who considers themselves a “theist” in some form or fashion.

There are three things that jump out at me when I read this story.  Lying, rage and addiction.  Not three characteristics you’d expect in a redeemed community.  A girl lost her life.  Was she a martyr for Christ?  No one knows.  But after investigating the investigators know that Val was the girl asked the question and was heard to respond “Yes.”  While investigator’s gathered up their information, the myth formation was on its way. Songs had been written, testimonies given, ministries started based on the belief that Cassie was martyred, a book written and the story carved in stone.

And in stone it will stay.  Why?  Well it’s not worth getting the community riled up and raise the wrath of not only Christ believers but Cassie believers too.  I find myself wondering what Cassie would think of this myth of martyrdom?  I tend to think she’d give voice in favour of Val’s truth.  I tend to think she’d say ‘Thanks for thinking so highly of me but that’s not fair to Val.’

And this fear of collective rage?  It’s amazing when you think about it.  What is to be feared for the community when the community believes in God?  Why would they respond with rage?  Can their belief not sustain the truth of the investigation?  Jesus saves.  Cassie was a Christian.  Is that in itself not enough?  Would it hurt the cause of Christ to stick to the truth as detailed in careful investigation?  Doesn’t truth triumph over lies when it comes to Christ?  Is Cassie less a Christian if none of this ever happened?  Is she less a Christian if maybe to save her life she answered “No”?  What happens to the story of Cassie when you take away her martyrdom?  Does it change anything on an eternal scale for her salvation?  Why is it necessary to perpetuate a lie, carve out a myth for the cause of Christ?  Who benefits?  Jesus?  Does Jesus need this story?

The tragedy is more than any person should have to bear.  Especially for those who loved Cassie.  But I think the burden to bear the possibility that the story was wrong from the start would wear out my mother’s heart.  Yes I lost my daughter, but another mother is the mother of the girl who said “Yes” and though Val and family have agreed to be silent and let it all go and not make a fuss speaks volumes to me.  They too are willing not to ruffle feathers but they too don’t mind the myth IF it is for the cause of Christ.  And clearly it is.

Lying, rage and addiction.  So the story stays the same, though mythological in origin because collectively there is an addiction to the myth and it will tick off a lot of believers if it is exposed.  Not only do people agree to go along with it, so do the investigator’s.  Rather than confront the addiction, society enables it.  I keep wondering IF God is so great and God is so good, isn’t God able to handle the truth? If so, then why not let Him?

Romans 3:7

Someone might argue, “If my falsehood enhances God’s truthfulness and so increases his glory, why am I still condemned as a sinner?” NIV

A friend that I once held to accountability told me she could not do so because the public knowledge of her sin and that of someone else’s would “hurt the cause of Christ.”  When I pointed out “the cause” had already been hurt she defended herself and him. Verses like Rom. 3:7 come in handy in these cases.  One just has to figure out when to apply it and when to apply one of The Ten Commandments in regards to lying.

 

Leaving – A Repost

Thought I’d share this here in relation to a conversation Alice and I are having . . . it brings back a lot of memories. 
Leaving – A Repost
Leaving Fundamentalism – hard

Leaving Church – harder

Leaving Christianity – hardest

I look at space, I look at the ocean, what lies hidden beneath the waves, I look at a butterfly, a tiny forget-me-not, neuropathways in our brains…just seems like some eternal being out there had a plan…so the idea of God does not offend me.

It’s all the other stuff that goes with it.Listen, you won’t find anyone more Christian &/or evangelical than me, regarding my Christian history. I always said, I came out of the womb believing. You couldn’t find a more active young person in the church. My husband & I were seriously planning on youth full-time ministry after his retirement. We spoke at conferences, taught seminars & attended international missions conferences. My closest friends were & still are missionaries who continue in full-time missions &/or are retired. I also briefly attended Bible college working towards a counselling degree. I lost count on the number of people I have “led” to the Lord, counselled with & ministered to in their suffering.

I strongly relate to & understand having one’s identity totally wrapped up in “Christianity/Churchianity.”It was during our years in church youth leadership that we had access to all that was going on within the church. We came to a cross roads. Follow man or follow Christ. We chose Christ. We paid dearly for it. Thankfully, a book came into my sight while browsing in a Christian bookstore. The title of which many are aware of, The Subtle Power of Spiritual Abuse, by Jeff VanVonderen & David Johnson. This book helped us survive.

Today, though I’m not sure I choose Christianity anymore, I will still recommend this book to anyone who has experienced or suspects they are being spiritually abused.Leaving Christianity is the hardest part of my journey. It is not easily done when one has very real life experiences that shout out…Yes Zoe, there really is a God!

A rebuke I received.
This is a rebuke I received. I share it here unedited. I share it here for those who fear for me & would love to share the same rebuke with me.
“leaving God is like leaving life behind you, and by doing this awful thing, you life will be awful, you dont only leave God , but you also leave joy, and peace behind, and take on fear and sorrow, for by leaving the almighty God of love, God is quoted as being love, and that is what your are leaving,love out of your life, and to replace it with hate, and remorse, rev ******* ******* kentucky evanglist”

and

“final note from kentucky from preacher, some day every word you have said about leaving God will be brought out at the judgement seat of christ, then you will answer for all the words and vile thoughts you have had toward your creator, God is not moked (what a man sowes he shall surely reap), you have sown your trust and faith in God to the wind, and my suggestion is for a confession to christ for this thing of leaving God. evanglist ******* ******* kentucky”
 

My Response:

You know what I notice makes some Christian people uncomfortable about where I am in my journey?They can’t stand, that right now, I can’t really tell them what I believe.

People are so use to hearing the black & white of people’s faith/belief systems/religions/philosophies etc. that they just don’t know what to do with someone like me.

Their first inclination is to convert me back, pull me back or another option is to hit me upside the head with a mallet, kick my butt…or simply turn & walk away from me. I understand these reactions.

I lived & worshipped in this world. I know they have no other choice, according to their belief & understanding. They must warn me. They must attempt to bring me back before it is too late. They must save me from an eternal hell here on the earth & again in the afterlife.Then there are some Christian friends that have listened, heard, accepted & still love me.

All I know is right now, I can’t jump onto any bandwagon of belief.I can’t do something like Tom Harpur (Canadian author of The Pagan Christ) has done or even Bishop Spong because it’s all, in my opinion, a reworking of Christianity & I’m not convinced that Christianity can be reworked. If for example, Christianity is all based on “myth” then why call it Christianity &/or bother with it at all?

 
Originally blogged in 2004.
Then again on this blog HERE.
For more writing from years past, check out posts in Heretic Years and Leaving Christianity.

Zoe Review – Part Two

Ooookay.  So, continuing on.  After leaving the context of my past belief I entered into the non-belief zone and made it clear in my writing and in my little world that I did not feel an empty hole where Jesus once lived and I was not searching for a new religion.   I then embarked on blogging in what was then a very small world of “former Christian” bloggers.  Now that realm of bloggers has taken right off and wow, just wow.  What can I say?  Seriously.  What can I add to the commentary?

I can’t add anything to the debate or the intellectual pursuit.  I’m not a Biblical scholar.  My deconversion came before I even knew the names of Dawkins, Hitchens or Harris.  I remember finding *Earl Doherty’s site, The Jesus Puzzle and reading an online (now offline and published) book titled Dare To Think For Yourself, by *Betty Brogaard who described her personal story of deconversion.  It was the first time I read something that described what I had gone through.  As well, I leaned towards a belief that the Jesus of my former belief was mostly mythical and to this day I remain agnostic where Jesus is concerned.  Even among the skeptical (sceptical for my U.K. friends) my tendency towards a mythical Jesus is heresy!

Scholars can’t agree and though I might be looked upon as a simpleton in the skeptical world, what can I do about it apart from what I have done?  I’m curious to be sure but even in the secular world my knowledge can only take me so far and the brain I have can only compute so far.  I have found over time that I limit my interaction on other blogs.  There’s a sense that I’m not intelligent enough to participate on most secular blogs where the emphasis is to debate or to debunk.  I can read but entering into the fray would not serve the discussion at all.  About all I’m equipped to do is tell a personal story and at the heart of it all it appears to me that I’m an emotional blogger.  (Okay, never mind you long-term friends who figured that all out ages ago.)  :mrgreen:

* Websites for Doherty and Betty are in my sidebar.

Not An Inspiring Post

Okay, so this post is a downer and will suck the energy out of you, so if you are looking for good cheer at this time of the year, you won’t get it here.  This is your *trigger warning.

If you are still here, we’ll go ahead.

I live in a community with so many churches.  So very many churches.  In fact, Biker Dude told me of yet one more that has been added to the quiver.

As everyone knows, people are hurting.  More people use the food bank then ever before.  The needs of charities are greater than ever.  Calls at this time of the year go out in our community from The Salvation Army.  This year they have enough toys but need cash donations and non-perishable foods.  They also need people to stand by the kettles for donations in various stores around the community.

This year it’s strange.  I’m an Atheist when it comes to their Jesus.  They don’t know that as I put another bill in their kettle.  I smile warmly, exchange salutations and the Captain looks into my eyes.  He looks weary.  I’m sadly aware that, his kettle is empty tonight, except for my donation.  I wonder, why is it that this kettle is not full?  Yes, I know people are hurting…but…all these beautiful churches, and all those Christians, and their pageants, cantatas and plays…why are these kettles not full?

Another store, another kettle.  Merry Christmas and God Bless I hear in return.  I smile and say, Thank you.

This week, the local radio station plays a few tunes and then another pastor from another one of our churches gives a mini-sermon about the birth of Jesus, about John 3:16, about the Lord’s salvation and how we never have to need for anything again when we have the Lord.  Today, I couldn’t listen to it one more time.  Each preacher, naming his church and it seemed to me that it was a competition of sorts.  Of course, they would say it’s just an invitation and they want people to know the time, place and day whereby they can come to a service and get the best Christmas gift ever… Jesus Christ.  One preacher went on about what Jesus would want.  Here again, another preacher that knows what Jesus wants.  Don’t they all?

I learned recently that the minister in my parent’s church admitted to his congregation that he didn’t believe in the virgin birth.  Mom was kind of excited about that.  She doesn’t believe in it either.  I guess she thought I’d be please and see how progressive his stance is and how brave he was to share that bit of information.  I actually took it in a nonchalant way and responded, Mom, you’d be surprised at how many Atheists are in the pulpit.

Now, I know that not believing in the virgin birth does not an Atheist make.  However, if this is the case for this pastor, what else doesn’t he believe in?  Do you see what I mean?  I think many people stay in the church for a profession and for community.  If they plan on leaving, it’s going to be a slow progression of change for them and they won’t immediately abandon ship.  Not only that, but I think more and more Christians are becoming more liberal-minded and letting go of the literalism of the past.  They are getting comfortable with myth and staying with it for the sake of culture, tradition and community.  

The other day I was shopping and gave to this woman’s project in Sudan.  She raises the money herself to be able to go and again, I gave.  Without question.  Without hesitation.  I don’t share this to brag.  I share it because over and over, as I travel around ex-Christian blogs, I get so tired of the token Christian who spouts off ad nauseum, that Atheists have no ethical or moral behaviour at all and they are not capable of love in it’s purest sense, only lust.  I get so tired of it.  People all over the world, religious and non-religious give out of a genuine heart for people.   The churches say, come to our church this Christmas season and be filled with the gift of a Saviour, Jesus Christ.  Then they leave and go home, with empty belly’s. 

So, this is a rant I guess.  Just another of my existential days.

And so this is Christmas.  Jesus is suppose to be the reason for the season around here.  Personally, I think the reason for the season is the tilt of the earth’s axis.  Ho Ho Ho!  :roll:

~ Zoe …

Six billion +

Here’s a mini-synopsis of where I’ve been on this journey away from Christianity.

Bible – not inerrant, not infallible

God – seeking to structure God, to define “this” being seemed arrogant & presumptuous

Six billion people on the planet now.
Add to this figure, the sum of countless individuals who have lived & died before now.

Can’t wrap myself around this idea that the universe can be explained by a god who set in place, narrow specific parameters for salvation.

Countless people in hell because they were never born-again in Christ?

Hell – no
Heaven – no hell, then why heaven?

This is it.
We live, we die.

Whole new perspective regarding life on earth.
No eternity. Relief. Freedom.

Originally blogged in 2005.

Real or Myth?

You see, I see more & more Christians saying, ‘well, you know, umm, maybe this whole Jesus thing is mostly myth & well, maybe, just maybe Jesus was a real person, but maybe not, yet, maybe & well, I’m not sure if he was/is God…STILL though, I like the message, though I believe it’s more a myth than reality.’

I have to ask this. What are we doing preaching Christ if it’s all a myth or mostly a myth? What are we doing? We lead people to Christ the myth? Aren’t we sort of sliding around in this “pseudo-well maybe there’s some truth in here” lingo & we lead people to an elusive Christianity & belief, because well, it’s okay, we don’t understand or believe it all anyway, thinking or at least feeling we’ve chosen the better way, because well the whole “Golden Rule” & such, (which exists in antiquity outside the Christian faith & we all know one doesn’t have to be a Christian to do unto others as you would have them do unto you)…

(stops to catch her breath)

…how much integrity do we have in this kind of Christianity? If Christianity is more myth then reality, what the blazes are we doing acting like it’s real?

Originally blogged in 2005.

Leaving

Leaving Fundamentalism – hard

Leaving Church – harder

Leaving Christianity – hardest

I look at space, I look at the ocean, what lies hidden beneath the waves, I look at a butterfly, a tiny forget-me-not, neuropathways in our brains…just seems like some eternal being out there had a plan…so the idea of God does not offend me.

It’s all the other stuff that goes with it.Listen, you won’t find anyone more Christian &/or evangelical then me, regarding my Christian history. I always said, I came out of the womb believing. You couldn’t find a more active young person in the church. My husband & I were seriously planning on youth full-time ministry after his retirement. We spoke at conferences, taught seminars & attended international missions conferences. My closest friends were & still are missionaries who continue in full-time missions &/or are retired. I also briefly attended Bible college working towards a counselling degree. I lost count on the number of people I have “led” to the Lord, counselled with & ministered to in their suffering.

I strongly relate to & understand having one’s identity totally wrapped up in “Christianity/Churchianity.”It was during our years in church youth leadership that we had access to all that was going on within the church. We came to a cross roads. Follow man or follow Christ. We chose Christ. We paid dearly for it. Thankfully, a book came into my sight while browsing in a Christian bookstore. The title of which many are aware of, The Subtle Power of Spiritual Abuse, by Jeff VanVonderen & David Johnson. This book helped us survive.

Today, though I’m not sure I choose Christianity anymore, I will still recommend this book to anyone who has experienced or suspects they are being spiritually abused.Leaving Christianity is the hardest part of my journey. It is not easily done when one has very real life experiences that shout out…Yes Zoe, there really is a God!

A rebuke I received.
This is a rebuke I received. I share it here unedited. I share it here for those who fear for me & would love to share the same rebuke with me.
“leaving God is like leaving life behind you, and by doing this awful thing, you life will be awful, you dont only leave God , but you also leave joy, and peace behind, and take on fear and sorrow, for by leaving the almighty God of love, God is quoted as being love, and that is what your are leaving,love out of your life, and to replace it with hate, and remorse, rev ******* ******* kentucky evanglist”

and

“final note from kentucky from preacher, some day every word you have said about leaving God will be brought out at the judgement seat of christ, then you will answer for all the words and vile thoughts you have had toward your creator, God is not moked (what a man sowes he shall surely reap), you have sown your trust and faith in God to the wind, and my suggestion is for a confession to christ for this thing of leaving God. evanglist ******* ******* kentucky”
 

My Response:

You know what I notice makes some Christian people uncomfortable about where I am in my journey?They can’t stand, that right now, I can’t really tell them what I believe.

People are so use to hearing the black & white of people’s faith/belief systems/religions/philosophies etc. that they just don’t know what to do with someone like me.

Their first inclination is to convert me back, pull me back or another option is to hit me upside the head with a mallet, kick my butt…or simply turn & walk away from me. I understand these reactions.

I lived & worshipped in this world. I know they have no other choice, according to their belief & understanding. They must warn me. They must attempt to bring me back before it is too late. They must save me from an eternal hell here on the earth & again in the afterlife.Then there are some Christian friends that have listened, heard, accepted & still love me.

All I know is right now, I can’t jump onto any bandwagon of belief.I can’t do something like Tom Harpur (Canadian author of The Pagan Christ) has done or even Bishop Spong because it’s all, in my opinion, a reworking of Christianity & I’m not convinced that Christianity can be reworked. If for example, Christianity is all based on “myth” then why call it Christianity &/or bother with it at all?

 
Originally blogged in 2004.