Revit Callout Crop Boundary Mismatch

When placing callouts in Revit, it is a common situation that you might want the crop boundary on the callout view to be different to the view reference on the parent view.  Here is a typical example:

• When a callout (eg. for a bathroom) is created, you typically leave a large zone around the walls so that the callout is clearly visible on the plan

• When you go to the callout view, it has greater extents than required

• If you adjust the crop in the view to be tight around the walls, to display as you'd typically like it on the drawing sheet . . .

• it also affects the parent view callout reference - so the callout boundary is very hard to see on the drawing.

This is how Revit callouts were designed to work - but it does not allow you the flexibility to make your drawings look neat and readable.


The workaround solution that I would normally recommend is to create the bathroom layout views without usng the Callout tool (duplicate views, crop manually); crop them as desired; then use Callouts with 'Reference Other View'.

• This allows you to have slightly different callout and view crop boundaries
• Be warned that it does mean that the callouts will not automatically update if the view crop boundary is changed.

 More detail on this technique in a following blog post . . .

Levels By Scope Box Hidden in Section Elevation

Lost your Levels in Revit?

Here is some weird Revit behaviour that you may need to know about Scope Boxes and Level/Grid visibility - to help you find invisible Levels:

Example: Multistorey Building with podium and  two towers 

A common situation in Revit occurs when you have two sets of levels, that do not align - perhaps you have a building with two towers that have different floor to floor heights.

NB. In this example:

• All levels are displayed with 3D extents (so it ignores the effects of 2D view cropping of levels). 
• Same behaviour applies to grids as levels, but only levels are shown here.

Level Visibility

• From one direction the levels look good in elevation or section

South Elevation - Levels

•  Looking from the side, the levels might overlap each other (depending on the view extents) - a mess where you can see both sets of tower levels mixed together.

Side Elevation - all levels visible

• To make the side elevations and cross-sections look better, you need to adjust the view extents -

• Typically you should set 'Far Clipping' to 'Clip without line' and set the offset so that it extends into the levels that you want to see, but not the distant ones

South Elevation - Far Clipping through levels

Section - Far Clipping through levels

•  If the clipping is too short you won't see the levels

South Elevation - Far Clipping too short

Section - Far Clipping too short

• If the far clipping is too long, and extends through both sets of levels, they will both be displayed (usually - see Weird Stuff below)
• If Far Clipping is set to 'No Clip', you will see all the levels

No Clip

Far Clipping Options

South Elevation - No Far Clipping

Section - No Far Clipping

• Interestingly, when you set a section or elevation to 'No Far Clip', you can actually see levels behind the view.  In the example below, the section line is between the towers.

South Elevation - Section between towers; No Far Clipping

Section between towers - No Far Clipping

Where Are My Levels?

If some (or all) of your Revit building levels are not showing up in a section or elevation view, you can use the above 'No Clip' behaviour to your advantage:

• Check all the usual visibility settings, such as Category On; no filters; Not hidden in view etc.

• Set the view extents to 'No Clip'
• Set the view to 'No Cropping', so that you can see the 3D extents of all levels

If the levels are still not visible, it may be due this next quirk of Revit behaviour:

Weird Scope Box Properties

• If any of the levels (or grids) have a scope box applied to them, not only will the scope box crop their extents, it will also prevent levels from showing in a section or elevation unless the cutting plane of the section/elevation actually intersects the level.
• This means that 'No Far Clipping' has no effect on visibility

To resolve this:

• you have to set the Scope Box properties back to 'None'

• The level extents will not change, but they will no longer be controlled or locked by a scope box.
  
• You have to make a decision about which is the worst of two evils!

You may also want to check the 3D extents of levels in a 3D view by turning the Level category on in Visibility Graphics.  Refer to 3D Levels

Another Scope Box Quirk

 Scope Box visibility behaves differently to Levels and Grids:

• A scope box will always be visible in a section or elevation view only when the view cutting plane actually intersects the scope box.
• You cannot make distant scope boxes visible by changing the section/elevation Far Clipping property to 'No Clip' - unlike Levels, it makes no difference.

More info about Scope Boxes: 

• Scope Boxes Greyed out
• Changing the Height of Radial Grids
• Quick Fix Wonky Rotated Plan Views

Weird Reference Callout Rules in Revit

Over many years of struggling with Revit's numerous quirks, I have never quite figured out what the hidden rules are for Callouts.  Here are my latest thoughts after some detailed research:

Reference Callouts

When you tick the box 'Reference Other View' you get a list of possible views to reference.  That list of views is not predictable (so I thought) - however, I've narrowed down some extra rules about which views might be available:

• A plan, section, elevation or detail view will only show in the list if it is cropped  (This caught me out at first).
• A drafting view cannot be cropped - so the above rule does not apply.
• A so-called "Rendering" view, which is actually like a drafting view with an image on it- so it cannot be cropped
• Certain view family/types are available depending on the active view being placed in - see the list below.
• If you apply the first two rules to the list of view types below, you might just be able to predict what can be referenced when.

Rules for 'Reference Other View' Callouts:

In a floor plan view, you can reference callout to:

• Any drafting view
• A detail Plan view (but not a section detail view)
• A floor plan view (including Area plan and RCP)
• A Rendering view

In a detail plan view, you can reference callout to:

• Any drafting view
• Any detail view (Plan or section)
• Any section or elevation view
• Not to any floor plan - (this is a big limitation)
• A Rendering view
  

In a section view or section detail view, you can reference callout to:

• Any drafting view
• Any detail view (Plan or section)
• Any other section or elevation view (But not to a floor plan)
• A Rendering view
  

 

In a drafting view (or a rendering view), you can reference callout to:

• Any drafting view
• Any detail view
• Any floor plan view (including Area plan and RCP)
• Any other section or elevation view
• A Rendering view

However, the choice of view type is not always that simple . . . .

In a previous post (about stair path arrows) I described the relative benefits of making your plan callouts 'Plan Views' vs 'Detail Views'.

You may also want to display your stairs differently in plan (compared to the standard 2D representation in plan views):

• True 3D RCP Stair View

Weirder and Weirder

For more details on Callout weirdness, refer to:

• Weird rules for Real Callouts

• Callout Crop-Boundary Mismatch

• Which kind of Callout to use