<hhalpin> Apologies - phone issues...

Convene GRDDL WG meeting of 2006-09-0611:00ET

<DanC> minutes good enough for me http://www.w3.org/2006/08/30-grddl-wg-minutes

<DanC> Scribe: ryager

Resolution - working group minutes

<hhalpin> RESOLVED: http://www.w3.org/2006/08/30-grddl-wg-minutes is correct record

Ben will scribe in 2 weeks

<DanC> DanC is out next week (13 Sep) too.

<danja> ok, that's me

Chimezie will scribe next week

Discussion of Primer Document

<hhalpin> Ian - are you with us?

<briansuda> sort of

<danja> earlier - "iand may be a few mins late"

<FabienGandon> Ian's GRDDL Primer: http://research.talis.com/2006/grddl-wg/primer.html

<FabienGandon> Brian's GRDDL Primer: http://suda.co.uk/sandbox/GRDDL/Primer.htm

Ian explain the first case for Primer

Ian asks "how much work involved?"

Introduction and diagram as first draft for Primer by end of Sep.

mention of xhtml?

need to demonstrate for xslt to work.

last example has namespace.

who is tester?

Danny is the tester

<DanC> ACTION: DannyA to test examples from primer http://research.talis.com/2006/grddl-wg/primer.html [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/09/06-grddl-wg-minutes.html#action01]

<chimezie> Triclops

triclops

are we providing a testing tool? Yes.

<DanC> . ACTION Chime: @@@

<DanC> Re: GRDDL test howto?

Ad-hoc testing needed till next week

creating the microformat is out of scope

<chimezie> ACTION: Chimezie: Will get a short description of how Triclops can be used for generating diagrams of RDF [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/09/06-grddl-wg-minutes.html#action02]

<danja> (microformat validation is a rathole)

<DanC> . ACTION Chime: make some graphviz/svg/png diagrams of primer RDF <- Chime, do you accept that action?

<chimezie> yes

<DanC> oops. you're ahead of me. good.

Brian - presenting the primer

<chimezie> Dom's email on existing test harness: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-grddl-wg/2006Aug/0100.html

Brian writing the SPARQL query

html pages should be well-formatted

preference to use xhtml?

<danja> (a significant proportion of microformat instance docs aren't XHTML)

<FabienGandon> +1 to use XHTML everywhere.

transforming the calendar to rdf as the first step?

<briansuda> danja, they get run through TIDY to make them valid

<DanC> "about 639,000,000 for XHTML" vs "about 905,000,000 for HTML". hmm... same order of magnitude. interesting. I would have expected HTML to be mentioned 10x as often as XHTML.

first draft to use SPARQL to demonstrate the value of using rdf?

need only 1 primer - 1 use case or 2?

take both from Ian and Brian?

guitar case has no real data

Ian case has real data

extend Ian's work to cover sparql?

Brian and Ian will put together the cases

<hhalpin> ACTION: Brian and Ian will merge test cases. [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/09/06-grddl-wg-minutes.html#action03]

<danja> (briansuda, if you need to use Tidy, is it still grddl?)

<DanC> (no, most of the microformat services go beyond grddl.)

<hhalpin> ryager suggests links to use-case.

<hhalpin> murray suggests a motivaing introduction

<danja> (brb)

a paragraph for motivation

Chimezie volunteered for the paragraph

Primer aimed end of Sep

Publication need to be out as required by W3C

Primer and Use case can both meet the target date - Sep

will keep SPARQL section small?

focus on the grddl stuff?

<chimezie> ACTION: Chimezie will work on a short, motivating introduction for Primer (with segue to use cases) [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/09/06-grddl-wg-minutes.html#action04]

review use case document now

review of Use Cases document, reviewing actions from last meeting

<danja> (back)

<FabienGandon> http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/grddl-wg/doc43/scenario-gallery.htm

<DanC> I see http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/grddl-wg/doc43/scenario-gallery.htm v 1.26

Fabien - explains use case of library

<DanC> looks ready to ship, to me.

ready for review?

<benadida> zumm

xml schema use case - Ben to write up?

<DanC> (yeah, I had in mind the latter, Chime)

xml schema as a source to transform?

Ben will send email version of the xml schema use case today - 7th use case.

<DanC> ACTION:Harry to discuss with BenA and DanC the XML Schema use-case in context of Creative Commons and OAI. See clarification from DanC. [DONE] [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/09/06-grddl-wg-minutes.html#action05]

<DanC> ACTION: BenA to draft XML Schema use-case in context of Creative Commons and OAI. [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/09/06-grddl-wg-minutes.html#action06]

BenA - schedule use case review by tomorrow.

<DanC> ACTION: BenA to flesh out HTML RDF/A output of GRDDL use cases (i.e. review scheduling use case in detail) [CONTINUES] [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/09/06-grddl-wg-minutes.html#action07]

<DanC> ACTION: Fabien to review/reconsider digital library use case [DONE] [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/09/06-grddl-wg-minutes.html#action08]

<DanC> ACTION: Fabien to note that "Plus: ... " part of scheduling use case #1 needs work, and ask Ben for help whenever he becomes availble and drop it from the draft meanwhile [DONE] [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/09/06-grddl-wg-minutes.html#action09]

BenA will proof-read document

Danny too

<hhalpin> ACTION: BenA will proof-read document [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/09/06-grddl-wg-minutes.html#action10]

<hhalpin> ACTION: Danny will proof-read document [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/09/06-grddl-wg-minutes.html#action11]

<danja> (note to self: review with go/don't in mind)

<DanC> ACTION: Harry to review digital library use case [DONE] [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/09/06-grddl-wg-minutes.html#action12]

review should submit to the email distribtuion list

<DanC> ACTION: Ryager to read draft thoroughly [CONTINUES] [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/09/06-grddl-wg-minutes.html#action13]

[#issue-base-param], conformance labels, and other GRDDL spec issues

Ian to help after Primer work?

<danja> (if test harness work is deferred for a couple of weeks, I can help then too)

not introducing another param?

<DanC> ACTION: DanC to enumerate options for base issue, pick one, and propose it in the form of a test case. See his suggestion to pass it as a paramter and discussion with Chime over extension functions [CONTINUES] [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/09/06-grddl-wg-minutes.html#action14]

Everyone agree

Chime introducing conformance label issue

does not address consistent language

<DanC> Chime on Conformance labels and consistent communication http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-grddl-wg/2006Sep/0053.html

to commit conformance label?

user agent, processor, grddl document mechanism?

grddl result graph?

should have a consistent vocabulary - chime

rules for replacing?

Chime will go through the use case document to provide the conformance

need a glossary?

Fabien, Chime, Harry - glossary

<hhalpin> ACTION: Harry to re-read Use Case document [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/09/06-grddl-wg-minutes.html#action15]

grddl doc and grddl processor only

<FabienGandon> ACTION: Fabien to review the terminology of the Use Case [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/09/06-grddl-wg-minutes.html#action16]

<danja> (/me generally agrees to standard terminology, glossary)

grddl doc = resource doc?

<chimezie> ACTION: Chimezie to work towards a glossary for consistent terminology and suggest some rewording [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/09/06-grddl-wg-minutes.html#action17]

<FabienGandon> Do we want a glossary in the Use Case doc ?

<hhalpin> ACTION: Murray to send out his take on take on standardized vocabulary [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/09/06-grddl-wg-minutes.html#action18]

<DanC> hasta, briansuda

<briansuda> DanC, i'll catch you in IRC soon

glossary will be included in the use case document.

by next week

<DanC> ACTION:Chime to suggest which conformance labels, if any, the GRDDL spec should includ [DONE] [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/09/06-grddl-wg-minutes.html#action19]

<FabienGandon> ACTION: Fabien to add a Glossary section in the Use Case Doc [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/09/06-grddl-wg-minutes.html#action20]

any transformation language?

xslt, xquery etc?

<FabienGandon> First Mediatype message: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-grddl-wg/2006Sep/0020

<FabienGandon> Now, for the more controversial media-type sentence:

<FabienGandon> "GRDDL can use media types of the transformation resource to detect the what type of language the transformation uses. For example, if in a

<FabienGandon> XHTML document the link element has an href attribute of "http://www.example.org/transformation" and this URI returns a document

<FabienGandon> with a media type of "application/xslt+xml," GRDDL is licensed to run the transformation using XSLT."

appendix to explain what software does?

<DanC> ACTION: DanC to draft an appendix about a sample implementaiton of GRDDL [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/09/06-grddl-wg-minutes.html#action21]

tabled as issue list

xslt1 as recommendation?

<chimezie> +1 for SHOULD

Harry provides recommendation text

<DanC> ACTION:Harry to draft some elaboration on how media types work with GRDDL [CONTINUES] [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/09/06-grddl-wg-minutes.html#action22]

GRDDL, XProc, and processing order

<danja> (/me needs to chase up docs on XSLT 1.0 processor response to XSLT 2.0 transformations, but still +1 to SHOULD for XSLT 1.0)

http://www.w3.org/2004/01/rdxh/spec

<DanC> http://www.w3.org/2004/01/rdxh/spec#implExp

<DanC> DanC: it's not obviuos to me what happens if, for example, Harry's calendar has an <xinclude> in it.

<DanC> ... my implementation doesn't do it.

<DanC> Chime: mine does

<DanC> Murray: so you've got a pipeline. You can specify that pipeline in the document that represents the transformation algorithm.

<DanC> iand, see you next time.

<iand> yep, bye all

<danja> bye

<DanC> Murray: W3C is working on a standardize XML Processing model language, but we don't need to tie GRDDL to that directly; somebody might use a shell script to specify their pipeline/transformation.

<ryager1> should test the interaction

<ryager1> who run over the issue list?

<DanC> ACTION: DanC to add an issue about xinclude an processing order [CONTINUES] [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/09/06-grddl-wg-minutes.html#action23]

<benadida> zumm

<benadida> whoops, sorry

<danja> thanks, bye all

<DanC> ADJOURN.

<ryager1> http://www.w3.org/2006/09/06-grddl-wg-irc#T16-31-43

<hhalpin> ACTION: Murray to suggest what GRDDL spec issues are covered by XML Processing, suggestion on how to fix it. [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/09/06-grddl-wg-minutes.html#action24]

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Found Scribe: ryager
Inferring ScribeNick: ryager
Default Present: FabienGandon, Rachel_Yager, DanC, Murray_Maloney, BenA, hhalpin, Chimezie_Ogbuji, danja, briansuda, iand
Present: FabienGandon Rachel_Yager DanC Murray_Maloney BenA hhalpin Chimezie_Ogbuji danja briansuda iand
Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-grddl-wg/2006Sep/0015.html
Got date from IRC log name: 6 Sep 2006
Guessing minutes URL: http://www.w3.org/2006/09/06-grddl-wg-minutes.html
People with action items: bena brian chimezie danc danny dannya fabien harry murray ryager

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