Rocket Report: A nearly perfect flight for Starship; China’s surprise launch

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wagnerrp

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  • #81
    For a bit of context in all this, here's a map of Woomera Test Range. I've highlighted Lake Hart. It's the red dot in the bottom right corner.

    1760808464392.png

    People actually live in the green, orange, and yellow zones, and the military has to go find and collect them before closing the range for a test.

    Troper1138 said:
    I'm quite confused by that story about Saab and the errant missile in Australia. It sounds like Saab sold an anti-aircraft missile to the Australian Defence Force decades ago, and someone in the Australian military screwed up and the thing went astray during some sort of live-fire exercise and basically wound up in someone's yard.
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    Just because it was found in 2021 doesn't mean it was fired in 2021. Its entirely possible the missile was fired during an exercise decades ago, and may have even had Saab officials present.

    I'm not sure if RBS-70 is even in service any longer. Australia chose to replace it with NASAMS in 2019, and have offloaded most of their stocks on Ukraine in the past few years.

    Troper1138 said:
    I suspect these human rights activists are bringing legal (or PR) action against Saab entirely because they can
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    Pretty much.
     
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    PhillyJimi

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  • #82
    Old_Fogie_Late_Bloomer said:
    It takes a lot of parts to make it possible for an airplane to fly more than once in one day. It takes fewer parts to make sure that if something goes wrong midflight, that airplane can still return its passengers or cargo safely back down the ground. Did one of your engines just ingest a fan blade? You've got one or more engines remaining to get you to the nearest airport.

    My guess is that SpaceX is designing for zero tiles lost per flight. Once the craft is on the ground, they can do a robotic inspection, make sure the tiles are all the minimal acceptable thickness, and individually replace any that are cracked, loose, or overly worn. That's the normal flight regime, kinda like how an airplane's normal flight regime doesn't involve replacing an engine and possibly the nacelle its housed in.

    But some flights might see a lost tile. Or maybe even more than one. As long as the people that went up in that ship can make it back down safely, and as long as your stable of usable ships is large enough, that's not going to be any more of a disruption than an engine failure is going to be on an airliner.
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    This is just a hunch but I have a feeling the Human rated Starship is going to be much different than these test ships. The heat tiles for the Human Rated Starship I believe will be much much more robust. That said, they will continue to use Crew Dragon for quite a while, to get off and return to Earth.

    A single crashed Starship with humans aboard could stop the whole program for years. If 1 out of 120 fuel tanker Starships crash it won't be a big deal. I would think they would want 100's of cargo Starship missions to be flown before worrying about putting any humans aborad. Especially with Crew Dragon in their back pocket.

    The main focus of 26 will be catching Starship, launching Starlink V3 satellites and fuel tanker missions for testing refueling in orbit. Only after that can they start testing Moon/Mars missions. No need to worry about the Moon/Mars until these things are resolved. Starlink V3 will really help generate the $ to pay for all of it.

    Just getting to the Moon/Mars is only the 1st step, you actually need infrastructure that can get built there, nothing is on the shelf built and ready to go as of right now. Using resources on Mars to build with, would make much more sense rather than having to lug everything there from Earth.
     
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    Anton Longshot

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  • #85
    YetAnotherBoris said:
    No, it's going to be 100 t to orbit with Raptor 3 engines, on a slightly stretched v3 stack (to fly for the first time in Q1 next year). The current v2 stack, the last of which flew in the 11th test, is allegedly maxing out at 35 t to orbit:

    View attachment 120434
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    If they keep increasing the height of subsequent versions we'll soon have a space elevator and everything/everybody will be fine.
     
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    shawnce

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  • #87
    Anton Longshot said:
    If they keep increasing the height of subsequent versions we'll soon have a space elevator and everything/everybody will be fine.
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    As a point of reference the current version of the Falcon 9 that they have been flying for years now is around 27% taller than the original Falcon 9. The Starship stack is so far growing in height less than that.

    The growth in height for both the Falcon and Starship is a result of having more engine thrust that they could put towards lifting more propellant. The merlin gained a lot of performance and the Raptor is as well that has allowed both craft to grow in height (however likely to a less percent change given the high starting point of the Raptor family).
     
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    stefan_lec

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  • #88
    Really cool article from Space.com on a commercial space telescope (space science as a subscription service):

    https://www.space.com/astronomy/exo...ope-help-find-stars-with-habitable-exoplanets

    Some highlights:

    The Mauve telescope, developed by London-headquartered start-up Blue Skies Space, is the size of a small suitcase and carries an off-the-shelf ultraviolet spectrometer modified to monitor flaring stars. It is one of the payloads that will launch on SpaceX's upcoming Transporter-15 mission, currently set for no earlier than November 2025.
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    The last dedicated mission to observe stellar ultraviolet light, the International Ultraviolet Explorer, ended in 1996. The legendary Hubble Space Telescope can perform such measurements, but availability of observing time is limited, Tessenyi said. Hundreds of science teams from all over the world compete for observing time on the veteran space telescope, pursuing a multitude of challenging astronomical research projects that can't be accomplished by any other star-watching machine.

    Since scientific interest in exoplanets is on the rise, Blue Skies Space decided to cover the increasing demand for observations of stellar flares with a small, low-cost telescope and sell the resulting data to scientists worldwide through a yearly subscription model.
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    Tessenyi said that despite initial scepticism among scientists whether the new space way could work for astronomy, Blue Skies Space has seen a lot of interest in both of their missions. Nineteen universities from all over the world have already signed up for the data, which will begin streaming to Earth early next year.
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    Space science using small cheap satellites through a subscription service from a private company? Heck yes, more please!

    They've also got another slightly bigger satellite with an 18 inch telescope in the works, too: https://www.space.com/twinkle-exoplanets-first-commercial-astronomy-satellite
     
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    TimeToTilt

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  • #89
    stefan_lec said:
    Really cool article from Space.com on a commercial space telescope (space science as a subscription service):

    https://www.space.com/astronomy/exo...ope-help-find-stars-with-habitable-exoplanets

    Some highlights:







    Space science using small cheap satellites through a subscription service from a private company? Heck yes, more please!

    They've also got another slightly bigger satellite with an 18 inch telescope in the works, too: https://www.space.com/twinkle-exoplanets-first-commercial-astronomy-satellite
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    Oh sweet, been hoping we would see this. Not quite what I had in mind, but seems great. I was expecting a bidding system for slots.
     
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    YetAnotherBoris

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  • #90
    Anton Longshot said:
    If they keep increasing the height of subsequent versions we'll soon have a space elevator and everything/everybody will be fine.
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    Welp, Musk himself has suggested that the v4 stack will probably be closer to 150 m in height. That'll give it a fineness ratio of 150:9 or 16.7. Compare with Falcon 9, at 69.8:3.7 or 18.9. So even in its extra-stretched form, Starship still won't quite be the 'broomstick' that F9 is.

    That said, I bet SpaceX wishes they went with a 10 or 11 m or even larger diameter to begin with, instead of 9 m. It'd allow more engines for more thrust on Super Heavy without having to push each engine to ludicrous extremes of performance. It'd also allow even larger engine bells on RVacs, further raising their efficiency and thrust. But it's too late now; they're pretty well stuck with their initial choices.
     
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    Malmesbury

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  • #93
    afidel said:
    No, you can fall under ITAR and never have the US government as a customer, just like how encryption was classified as munitions and you could be restricted on who you sold to even though it was just math.
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    Yes. There is no way to do orbital rocketry in the US and not come under ITAR. Doesn’t matter if you start with zero knowledge and learn it all yourself.
     
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    EllPeaTea

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  • #95
    Livestreams for today's Starlink launch from Florida.
    Spaceflight Now:

    View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hGDNaulU15c

    NASA Spaceflight:

    View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k_xkAYwcnqs

    Space Affairs:

    View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f8C_5Gv57PQ

    SpaceX:
    https://www.spacex.com/launches/sl-10-17

    This will be the first ever 31st flight of an F9. Launch time has slipped, now about 1:30pm local time.
     
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    EllPeaTea

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  • #96
    SpaceX have published https://www.spacex.com/launches/sl-11-19 with details of a Starlink launch from California, currently scheduled for for about 11am local time on the 19th.
    SpaceX’s Falcon 9 is targeting the launch of 28 Starlink satellites to low-Earth orbit from Space Launch Complex 4 East (SLC-4E) from Vandenberg Space Force Base in California.

    A live webcast of this mission will begin about five minutes prior to liftoff, which you can watch here and on X @SpaceX. You can also watch the webcast on the X TV app.

    This is the 11th flight for the first stage booster supporting this mission, which previously launched NROL-126, Transporter-12, SPHEREx, NROL-57, and six Starlink missions. Following stage separation, the first stage will land on the Of Course I Still Love You droneship, which will be stationed in the Pacific Ocean.

    There is the possibility that residents of Santa Barbara, San Luis Obispo, and Ventura counties may hear one or more sonic booms during the launch, but what residents experience will depend on weather and other conditions.
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    The booster being flown is B1088 which last flew on September 19th.

    Note that this launch is currently scheduled for about 20 minutes after the Florida one.

    Livestreams:
    Spaceflight Now:

    View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rFxC6a92eOc

    Space Affairs:

    View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L1S56D-9srA
     
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    EllPeaTea

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  • #100
    Came across this on the Twitters today - a piece from Mike Griffin in Aviation Week from 2007 about the future of space exploration.
    https://web.archive.org/web/2021011...ypepad.com/space/2007/03/human_space_exp.html

    We should be doing 2 crew rotations a year to the moon by now. And he has an interesting look back at the costs of the early Shuttle cost, and how we could have used the same money to do 2 lunar landings a year plus a full Skylab program.
     
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    blookoolaid

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  • #101
    EllPeaTea said:
    Came across this on the Twitters today - a piece from Mike Griffin in Aviation Week from 2007 about the future of space exploration.
    https://web.archive.org/web/2021011...ypepad.com/space/2007/03/human_space_exp.html

    We should be doing 2 crew rotations a year to the moon by now. And he has an interesting look back at the costs of the early Shuttle cost, and how we could have used the same money to do 2 lunar landings a year plus a full Skylab program.
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    One of the comments under that long winded article shows that even in 2007 many people knew Griffin was full of shit. He never took responsibility for the fact that NASAs failure in human exploration was literally his fault.

    The reply:

    What Mike needs to understand is that he in his position at NASA is setting the pace, the cost, and the direction of NASA's exploration plans for the next 30 years just as surely as James Fletcher did in 1970 with the Shuttle.
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    With that, Mike is putting into place a plan that is extremely similar to the one that he put in place in 1992 as the head of exploration at the time and the great fear is that the results will be the same, when in 2008 if the presidency changes hands, there will be other priorities, much like in 1993.
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    If Mike is able to get enough contracts going to set in stone the direction of Ares 1/Orion, NASA will be saddled with yet another expensive manned spaceflight system that will consume a vast proportion of the resources of the agency. Saying that the Ares V only costs $750 per human mission is just as disingenous as saying that the marginal cost of a Shuttle mission was only $100 million dollars. Mike you know that this is a dodge and yet you continue forward with it.
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    Mars? Forget Mars, we will never go to the Moon with this direction and fixed cost structure. Already your internal teams at the centers are cutting back on the capabilities of the lunar outpost and have eliminated your cargo missions that were in the ESAS report. We are rapidlly headed toward the failed First Lunar Outpost design which is not much more than what ISS is today, a base without the funds to use it, a base with no purpose, no money, and no future. I guess we can continue on to Mars from that auspicious start.
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    You won't listen to this reply, you have thrown people out of your office for telling you this so there is little chance that you will listen to an anonymous (but informed on what is going on) reply. That the reply is anonymous is merely symptomatic of the fear that any voice other than your own is persecuted and run out of the agency.
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    The only ray of light is that you will be gone in a couple of years and since the Ares V won't be under development then, maybe a rational program to get us back to the Moon can be constructed that is cost effective as well as capable.
    In 2004 the president of the United States announced the Vision for Space Exploration. In the time since then you have managed to remove the vision from the VSE. Space is to important to our future to end up with that fate.
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    Posted by: Anonymous Space Lurker | March 14, 2007 at 11:12 PM
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    Mandella

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  • #112
    blookoolaid said:
    One of the comments under that long winded article shows that even in 2007 many people knew Griffin was full of shit. He never took responsibility for the fact that NASAs failure in human exploration was literally his fault.

    The reply:
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    This makes me want to go through the archives to find other posts from "Anonymous Space Lurker." Sounds like a good, if angry, source of insider info from back in the day. Wonder if they are still around?
     
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